One For The Omaholics

[Tom Cerny]

My question is this:

Home Game $1/$2 PLO/NLHE

8 handed
myself vs another good player heads up

I Flop broadway straight with no redraw, 2 spades on the flop. Opponent and myself both 400+BB deep.

cant remember the exact action but was extensive.

I put opponent on the same hand as myself (broadway), however he may have a flush/house redraw

Do I stack off 400+BB on the flop when opponent could be freerolling?

Do i restrain myself, see a turn then decide the best course of action?

Or is it simply a case of nuts = get it in

While this is probably blindingly obvious for the regular omy players keep in mind im still learning.
Thankyou

[David]

Fold.

[David]

Free flop action?
Positions?

[Brett Kay]

My question is this:

Home Game $1/$2 PLO/NLHE

8 handed
myself vs another good player heads up

I Flop broadway straight with no redraw, 2 spades on the flop. Opponent and myself both 400+BB deep.

cant remember the exact action but was extensive.

I put opponent on the same hand as myself (broadway), however he may have a flush/house redraw

Do I stack off 400+BB on the flop when opponent could be freerolling?

Do i restrain myself, see a turn then decide the best course of action?

Or is it simply a case of nuts = get it in

While this is probably blindingly obvious for the regular omy players keep in mind im still learning.
Thankyou

Best way to play this hand is to check and show no strength. Because you might have the nuts but he has two bites to get a flush draw. And why risk money over two cards when you can lead the turn and get some more money for his draw.

But trying to get it all in on that flop in deep is just wrong. You can try and build the pot but you lose FE in later streets.

E.g. 2 people from the flop has created a pot 4bb.

Player A pots flop for 4bb, Player B repots for 12bb Player A calls. Pot is now 28bb.

Turn and same think again A for 28bb, B Repots 84. Player A calls Pot is now 196

River. Pretty much if it goes bet repot. you have committed over 50% of your stack. Can you fold you straight here vs the 3 flush cards.

So by checking the flop, you can get the pot built on the turn. And then only risking 25% of your stack on the later streets.
Remember your trying to get the most amount of money. But if you think they have the flush draw or are freerolling to the flush draw. Your in trouble.

It could also go bad when they have two pair, straight and flush draw. Where 45% of the deck can help them and lose you the hand.

[muzzington]

I like Brett's suggestion of getting to the turn as cheaply as possible while concealing the strength of your hand.

[AceLosesKing]

I don't think I'd be looking to get any Omaha hand all in on the flop for 400bb, bar quads.

If you read is that you have the same hand/he has more outs, then why get it in? You're an underdog.

Call and play poker on the turn.

[Garth Kay]

Most Omaha experts will tell you to fold nut hands on the flop with no redraws if there is a lot of action.

Without a lot of information here on the action I would suggest check calling.

You definitely should not be looking to ship a 400 BB stack in on any flop.

[gmatical]

I put opponent on the same hand as myself (broadway), however he may have a flush/house redraw

How do you put him on such a specific hand?

I think you need to show aggression before you get cards that will frighten the life out of you.

Not 'stacking off 400bb' aggression - but bet flop. If re-raised call and check/call if no scare cards (spades or board pairers) all the way.

Brett's strategy/advice is sound, or you could just show no aggression and lose/win/chop depending on the turn n river.

This is a fundamental element in omaha - so often you flop nuts then get rolled later on. Whatever you decide to do - it should become near-automatic as you face these situations time and time again. Try and take the indecisiveness out of it and put your plan to the test.

I still wonder how you put him on such a hand - i think your final strategy needs to consider that he can have different holdings too.

[Garth Kay]

In most cases I find it very easy to place a player on a particular hand.

Most novice/noob players will not check raise flop/turn without a made hand and will rather call on a draw or any marginal hands (this includes top sets and bottom straights).

So in Tom's case he may have been three or four bet on the flop which immediately identifies the holdings of villain. Especially if he is the type of player described above.

If he was a thinking/omaha understanding player then you could potentialy put villain on large draws such as wrap/nut flush or top set/nutflush type hands. All of which are still favourites to beat your straight on the flop.

Hence why it is worthwhile to consider folding the nuts on the flop.

If you have villain on the same nut hand but with more draws then I would seriously consider folding as they are a definitive favourite in the hand and you can find better spots redeem chips. I am not calling my stack off looking to chop up a pot.

I think opening on the flop is fine, but consider bet/calling flop, check/calling turn and evaluate river. I really dislike been aggressive in this position with the read you have. You are just donating chips on every street to an opponent who is freerolling in the hand.

P.S - Reads should never be discounted in a hand discussion forum. If a player says I put villain on this; then we discuss optimum strategy and +EV plays against that range. We can discuss the logic behind the read and perhaps altering a range assigned. And by no means am I trying to do that above.

Tom is a decent player and would play against the same people week in and week out so his read would be pretty exact.

[kentishgirl2010]

Sorry to sound like a novice here but....

What is a broadway straight?