railing the SoO

[Bob B]

Sorry I should have mentioned Hails before Tommo seeing I'm going to receive a booby reward.

Well done Hails I thought we were gonna hit the final table together so my 12th was so disappointing to me.

Here's my unfortunate demise from the SoO for those who like to analise various hands.

Blinds were $2.5k/$5k, UG raises allin for $15k I insta call with pocket 8's, leaving me with $17K.

Hails is next to play and shoves ALLIN for $76k!!! Was she giving me a chance to fold or was she on a rush?

I decided to give my 8's a chance and hope she only has over cards. I was already in for $15k Plus there was good value for the additional $17k to win $80K.

UG shows Q3 spades
Me 88
Hails QQ

flop; 5s 2s 3h rainbow, turn; Ac river; Jd

Hailee moves on with a great stack of $131k for a top 4 finish I finish in 12th spot.

And now I'm wondering "should I have done a Bruce and folded my 8's to the $15K raise to make FT and let Hails or one of the blinds chase UG down??? Or should I have folded when Hails reraised"???

So, was my play right or wrong??

[maccatak11]

Yeah that's one of the best things about poker is that there are so many approaches/styles to the game, and many can be successful in certain situations (i.e. super turbo pub poker).

I think for many of us, though, the goal is to think about poker on a deeper level in order to become a well-rounded poker player. To learn the science as well as the art of the game. For many, this search will prove futile (myself included).


(fwiw i like superthreads that evolve into about 8 different topics )


Bob, which position were you and haylee in?

if you were next to act after the UTG raise then i think you could quite comfortably fold 88, but i think your only other option would be to shove, not call. 88 is not a bad hand against one other player, but by just calling here you put yourself in a tough spot if a) somebody shoved or b) one or more othere decided to call also. Unlucky that haylee woke up with a monster (as she does most mornings - sorry thommo), but flatting for almost half your stack is definately not optimum. Shove or fold in that spot.

[Bob B]

In hindsight I agree with the shove or fold Macca.

I was directly after UG and Hails was next to me so 1, 2, 3 positions after the blinds M8.

The table was sorta playing like heads up, meaning if there were a raise and a caller then the others folded so a flat call seemed a fair play at the time.

Had it been Bob B from 12 months or so ago the 8's woulda hit the muck so fast you'd miss it LOL.

As much as I wanted to protect my stack I thought Arlo was making a move on the blinds and the 8's felt like they had a chance against that particular player.

A fold to Hails reraise should have been easy too but $17k and blinds about to go up left me with just over two turns of the table and we were down to 6 on our table.

To say I'm not happy with the way I played that hand is a given. I guess the call on Hails ALLIN was pretty silly but I've tried to step up my game and made quite a few calls earlier in the tourney that required a bit of luck to go my way. LOL it didn't come this time tho!!!

If I hit an 8 then we would be a very happy boy today, LOL instead of a sad one. The bonus is I get a BOOBY PRIZE from HAILS or was it Tommo next time we catch up.

[maccatak11]

sorry bob i missed the fact that the UTG raiser had gone all in, making the call with the 8's not as bad, especially if the table was as tight as you say. However with a hand like that which doesnt play well multiway, i would try and isolate the original all-in by shoving myself and hoping to go heads up into the pot.

hindsight is a wonderful thing though, im awesome in hindsight in fact i never lose...

[JMACK007]

I have also learnt that no matter how much you say or try to help/educate Bruce it won't make a lick of difference as the man is set in his ways.

Personally if I saw any of my players that I coach or stake fold KK in that situation I would cut them out of my life pretty quickly. And if I hear anyone say he made the right fold, look at what came out, then those to deserve a variance fairy bashing. The question is did he make the right fold at the time, the answer is no. He had the best hand and had a chance to triple up and he did not exploit his edge in that hand.

Finally - gut instinct - pfffffftttttt! Your instincts are the culmination of your expereinces, learnings and skills translated into a subconcious thought/response when faced with a predicament or scenario of normally high stress.

Poker is a science and it is an analytical game, I am an instinctual player as well. I trust and rely on my instincts but I ALWAYS back up my instincts with hard facts be it pyshcological or mathematical.

Hi Garth,

I'm really glad you decided to comment on this thread, because it was your input I was most looking forward to seeing.

I don’t know if the above was aimed in my direction or not, but I think we have achieved alot for Bruce in this thread. We have made him realise that the best play for that hand is to shove first pre, Des has already stated that he would have folded to that, and Bruce would have won against the JJ, so we might just have helped Bruce a little there.

Not too sure about the rest regarding gut instinct, you seem to scoff at it in the first paragraph, then go on to say that your own play is somewhat reliant on your instincts...?

Anyway, good to get your insights.

[Des]

Bruce has spent 5 years building up the image of the biggest nit in the universe... he should by into the GF and change gears finally and he'd win it.

[bennymacca]

haha i can just see bruce just crushing the opposition by stealing the blinds, because everyone would think he just got dealt aces 1000 times in a row. (not kings though, he folds them )

[Swanky]

I see old man Swanky made the final table.

[muzzington]

I see old man Swanky made the final table.

Software glitch, I emailed Garth about it.

[Garth Kay]

I'm not scoffing Jmack. I scoff at those who say my gut told me to fold, when in reality it should be based on previous patterns and experiences with players that dictate your actions. I don't think I am communicating very well or not this aspect, it is something difficult for me to verbalise right now.

And my whole post was directed at everybody. And trust me, the conversation won't make a like of difference to Bruce. He will continue to limp UTG with KK and 5 BB's. And for the record I am never folding AK to an early pos shove from a 5BB stack. NEVER