Crazy Monday Poll - A serious one

[Swanky]

This was posted elsewhere and I loved it!


In the beginning . . .

This morning there was a knock at my door. When I answered the door I found a well groomed, nicely dressed couple. The man spoke first:

John: "Hi! I'm John, and this is Mary."

Mary: "Hi! We're here to invite you to come kiss Hank's ass with us."

Me: "Pardon me?! What are you talking about? Who's Hank, and why would I want to kiss His ass?"

John: "If you kiss Hank's ass, He'll give you a million dollars; and if you don't, He'll kick the shit out of you."

Me: "What? Is this some sort of bizarre mob shake-down?"

John: "Hank is a billionaire philanthropist. Hank built this town. Hank owns this town. He can do whatever He wants, and what He wants is to give you a million dollars, but He can't until you kiss His ass."

Me: "That doesn't make any sense. Why..."

Mary: "Who are you to question Hank's gift? Don't you want a million dollars? Isn't it worth a little kiss on the ass?"

Me: "Well maybe, if it's legit, but..."

John: "Then come kiss Hank's ass with us."

Me: "Do you kiss Hank's ass often?"

Mary: "Oh yes, all the time..."

Me: "And has He given you a million dollars?"

John: "Well no. You don't actually get the money until you leave town."

Me: "So why don't you just leave town now?"

Mary: "You can't leave until Hank tells you to, or you don't get the money, and He kicks the shit out of you."

Me: "Do you know anyone who kissed Hank's ass, left town, and got the million dollars?"

John: "My mother kissed Hank's ass for years. She left town last year, and I'm sure she got the money."

Me: "Haven't you talked to her since then?"

John: "Of course not, Hank doesn't allow it."

Me: "So what makes you think He'll actually give you the money if you've never talked to anyone who got the money?"

Mary: "Well, He gives you a little bit before you leave. Maybe you'll get a raise, maybe you'll win a small lotto, maybe you'll just find a twenty-dollar bill on the street."

Me: "What's that got to do with Hank?"

John: "Hank has certain 'connections.'"

Me: "I'm sorry, but this sounds like some sort of bizarre con game."

John: "But it's a million dollars, can you really take the chance? And remember, if you don't kiss Hank's ass He'll kick the shit out of you."

Me: "Maybe if I could see Hank, talk to Him, get the details straight from Him..."

Mary: "No one sees Hank, no one talks to Hank."

Me: "Then how do you kiss His ass?"

John: "Sometimes we just blow Him a kiss, and think of His ass. Other times we kiss Karl's ass, and he passes it on."

Me: "Who's Karl?"

Mary: "A friend of ours. He's the one who taught us all about kissing Hank's ass. All we had to do was take him out to dinner a few times."

Me: "And you just took his word for it when he said there was a Hank, that Hank wanted you to kiss His ass, and that Hank would reward you?"

John: "Oh no! Karl has a letter he got from Hank years ago explaining the whole thing. Here's a copy; see for yourself."


From the Desk of Karl

1. Kiss Hank's ass and He'll give you a million
dollars (when you leave town).

2. Use alcohol in moderation.

3. Kick the shit out of people who aren't like you.

4. Eat right.

5. Hank dictated this list Himself.

6. The moon is made of green cheese.

7. Everything Hank says is right.

8. Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.

9. Don't use alcohol.

10. Eat your wieners on buns, no condiments.

11. Kiss Hank's ass or He'll kick the shit out of you.



Me: "This appears to be written on Karl's letterhead."

Mary: "Hank didn't have any paper."

Me: "I have a hunch that if we checked we'd find this is Karl's handwriting."

John: "Of course, Hank dictated it."

Me: "I thought you said no one gets to see Hank?"

Mary: "Not now, but years ago He would talk to some people."

Me: "I thought you said He was a philanthropist. What sort of philanthropist kicks the shit out of people just because they're different?"

Mary: "It's what Hank wants, and Hank's always right."

Me: "How do you figure that?"

Mary: "Item 7 says 'Everything Hank says is right.' That's good enough for me!"

Me: "Maybe your friend Karl just made the whole thing up."

John: "No way! Item 5 says 'Hank dictated this list himself.' Besides, item 2 says 'Use alcohol in moderation,' Item 4 says 'Eat right,' and item 8 says 'Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.' Everyone knows those things are right, so the rest must be true, too."

Me: "But 9 says 'Don't use alcohol.' which doesn't quite go with item 2, and 6 says 'The moon is made of green cheese,' which is just plain wrong."

John: "There's no contradiction between 9 and 2, 9 just clarifies 2. As far as 6 goes, you've never been to the moon, so you can't say for sure."

Me: "Scientists have pretty firmly established that the moon is made of rock..."

Mary: "But they don't know if the rock came from the Earth, or from out of space, so it could just as easily be green cheese."

Me: "Not knowing where the rock came from doesn't make it cheese."

John: "Ha! You just admitted that scientists don't know. But we know Hank is always right!"

Me: "We do?"

Mary: "Of course we do, Item 7 says so."

Me: "You're saying Hank's always right because the list says so, the list is right because Hank dictated it, and we know that Hank dictated it because the list says so. That's circular logic, no different than saying 'Hank's right because He says He's right.'"

John: "Now you're getting it! It's so rewarding to see someone come around to Hank's way of thinking."

Me: "But...oh, never mind. What's the deal with wieners?"

Mary: (She blushes.)

John: "Wieners, in buns, no condiments. It's Hank's way. Anything else is wrong."

Me: "What if I don't have a bun?"

John: "No bun, no wiener. A wiener without a bun is wrong."

Me: "No relish? No Mustard?"

Mary: (Mary looks positively stricken.)

John: (He's shouting.) "There's no need for such language! Condiments of any kind are wrong!"

Me: "So a big pile of sauerkraut with some wieners chopped up in it would be out of the question?"

Mary: (Sticks her fingers in her ears.) "I am not listening to this. La la la, la la, la la la."

John: "That's disgusting. Only some sort of evil deviant would eat that..."

Me: "It's good! I eat it all the time."

Mary: (Mary faints.)

John: (He catches Mary.) "Well, if I'd known you were one of those I wouldn't have wasted my time. When Hank kicks the shit out of you I'll be there, counting my money and laughing. I'll kiss Hank's ass for you, you bunless cut-wienered kraut-eater."

(With this, John dragged Mary to their waiting car, and sped off.)

[Scotty]

[Swanky]

Ahhh fail Scott.

[bennymacca]

yes, but the elephants in Indonesia knew of the Tsunami and ran inland well before people...

they are far from little

this doesn't seem very god-like to me.

Animal early warning

Since the beginning of recorded history, observations of unusual animal behavior before earthquakes have been recorded by people from almost all civilizations. The animal behavior reports are often ambiguous and not consistently observed. In folklore, some animals have had more reports of being able to predict earthquakes than others, especially dogs, cats, chickens, horses, and other smaller animals. There have been reports with elephants, as well. Goats, cows, and most larger animals are generally reported as being less able to predict earthquakes.[citation needed]

For example, according to the Chief conservator of forests for the Indian state of Tamil Nadu, a few minutes before the killer tsunami waves generated by an underwater earthquake hit the Indian coastline in December 2004, a herd of 500 blackbucks rushed away from the coastal areas to the safety of a nearby hilltop[citation needed]

There is little evidence for animals being able to sense earthquakes before they happen, although it is likely they can sense the initial, weaker P-wave or ultrasonic wave generated by a big underground explosion or the rupture of an earthquake, even if the waves are too small for humans' senses. These waves travel faster than the S-wave and Rayleigh earthquake waves that most strongly shake the ground and causes the most damage. It is speculated that when this happens, animals can detect the incoming earthquake wave, and start behaving agitatedly or nervously.[citation needed]

Others postulate that the animal behavior is simply their response to an increase in low-frequency electromagnetic signals. The University of Colorado has demonstrated that electromagnetic activity can be generated by the fracturing of crystalline rock. Such activity occurs in fault lines before earthquakes. According to one study, electromagnetic sensors yield statistically valid results in predicting earthquakes.[14]

The Chinese began a systematic study of this unusual animal behavior and in December 1974 predicted a major earthquake that did, in fact, occur in February 1975.[citation needed] But skeptics claim to debunk nearly all such observations. In fact, the 1975 prediction relied most heavily on a series of strong foreshocks.[citation needed]

Earthquake-prone Japan has a long tradition associating catfish with earthquake prediction. From this idea emerged a long university research program concluding in 2004 in which it was proposed that the (established) high sensitivity of catfish to electric fields was involved in detecting fields of a few hertz because of piezoelectric effects on deeply buried quartz crystals. Actual monitoring of catfish and correlation with earthquakes gave results that are not promising.[citation needed]

Seismometers remain much more sensitive than even the animals, however, and technological early warning is more reliable than animal observation

[Scotty]

Ahhh fail Scott.

?

[Swanky]

In ref to your hotlink pic.

[Scotty]

You're still not making sense to me, mate

[Swanky]

You're ghey, but Jesus loves you.

[Adrian]

I don't quite understand how you can be so sure that the universe had to be created, but God doesn't.

What if the universe is a god-like object, that didn't have to be created? It just ... is? And always was?

I'm not sure. Not even a little bit sure. I just believe that this is the way it is because every other scenario seems less likely.

Of course it's possible that the universe has always existed in its present state, although observable evidence (such as it is) pretty much proves it hasn't always been like this.

So my answer is that it's plausible, but it's about an 80/20 likelihood in my opinion. I'll side with the 80% that says it was created. Of course, the percentages in your mind may differ.

Why does everything have to have a creation point, except God?
Why is it that the universe can't have just "always been" just as you say God has??

Because God is a special case, merely because that's the nature of the entity. Something with the power to create would not be beholden to the restraints which apply to Its creation. It will be above it, one would think.

So if one is to believe in creation, one must also believe that the physical realm in which the creation operates may will be vastly different to the physical realm in which God operates. This is part of the definition of what "God" actually is.

But of course, its beyond human ability to comprehend or "prove", because we are stuck in the mindset that the physical realm in which we operate is the only possible physical realm that can exist, and all the Laws that apply to it apply to everything.

God, as the creator, does not need to obey the laws of physics, he made them.

You beleive in "creationism" a few million years before creationismists do.

That's one way of putting it. Yes, I suppose I do believe that.

I think I'm just dismissive of the word "god" (yes, lower case g) rather than "creator". Not that I accept any argument for the existence of said god/creator.. I just think you're pigeonholing what you mean because of the word.

Does this creator have a degree in mollecularbiology in order to create things? Do they understand every minute detail of the human race, and every other race on Earth? Did he/she/it set the universe "going" and then see what happens?

Hmm. Interesting questions.

Well, the way I look at it is that he created the physical realm, the fundamentals of the universe, things we decided to name gravity, electromagnetism and the rest of it.

Needless to say I don't have all the answers. But I like the idea that he set things in motion, and then let "life' take its course because I also believe in evolution. But I also believe that complex organisms, such as humans, must be part of some design process. Perhaps not created exactly as we are today, as the Bible seems to so boldly declare, but somehow envisaged. But there is always room in my belief for random occurrances, not everything is under the complete control of God I don't think. It could be of course, but I think It just lets things go.

Everytime a few species of animal is discovered that appears to have formed from another, was this the creator's work? Or did he flick the "Earth" switch, and run off to lunch, or to play 888PL.

I think I've already given my opinion on this. I think the answer is perhaps, or perhaps not. Life is self-generating and regenerating and it's by no means perfect. It's not supposed to be perfect. I see no reason why things can't evolve from one species to another. I see no reason why things can't change. Philosophically, it's all the Creators work, because the Creator is the starting point for everything. But not every single outcome has been planned by him. It's not deliberate. There is room for randomness and odd, unusual outcomes. It was obviously all potentially envisaged to occur the way it has, but the way the universe has developed to this day was probably only one out of a billion other possible outcomes at the time of its creation.

Trying to put a label or belief on how everything was created is like trying to visualise the edge of the universe. We simply don't know what's there, and what did what - so we're better off leaving it in the "to do" pile.

No point putting it in the "to do" pile. If you've ever worked in an office you would know that the "to do" pile never gets emptied. And if humanity requires proof before acceptance, as seems to be the latest fashion for some inexplicable reason (ego, I think), then it's just never going to happen.

The best we can do is come to some level of belief that makes us comfortable. If you're comfortable without a Creator existence, then that's perfectly fine. Personally, I simply cannot fathom this as a likely possibility. But it's just a personal thing.

You're obviously right, we don't know. In fact, as I've previously stated, we cannot know. It's simple impossible for humans, with the limited tools we have at our disposal, to be abel to visualise much of anything. We've discovered a few things and think we're awesome. But as Newton said, the entire undiscovered ocean lies before us. It still does, in my opinion.

[bennymacca]

Adrian, your answers all seem to be "i believe in god because i can"

this is completely fine, but you can't really argue against other people saying that they dont believe, because they can use the same logic. so the argument just becomes circular.

I'm not sure. Not even a little bit sure. I just believe that this is the way it is because every other scenario seems less likely.

Of course it's possible that the universe has always existed in its present state, although observable evidence (such as it is) pretty much proves it hasn't always been like this.

So my answer is that it's plausible, but it's about an 80/20 likelihood in my opinion. I'll side with the 80% that says it was created. Of course, the percentages in your mind may differ.

you cannot argue for or against here really, because there is no evidence for or against either argument really. how did you come up with an answer of 80/20?