Crazy Monday Poll - A serious one

[Adrian]

That's illogical!

How so? It's perfectly logical.

If it cannot be shown that the universe made itself, then one must accept the existence of a creator of said universe. Because it clearly does exist, and got here somehow.

It's like if I walk down the street and see a house, and since I can't prove the house created itself, I must logically believe something created it somehow, because it's there.

[bennymacca]

you can't prove the house didn't create itself either, since you weren't there to witness the creation of the house.

you are arguing yourself in circles mate.

[Adrian]

A 6 inch elephant would

It's plausible, because everything is plausible.

I can't say 6 inch elephants don't exist simply because I've never seen one. Anything is possible.

And no, I beleive it's on the onus of the person stating something to prove it exists!

But why must the default position be unbelief, unless proven otherwise? Why can it not be belief, unless proven otherwise? I think you choose the onus to be in this direction merely because it suits your own belief system better. This doesn't make it any more or less logical than the opposite.

[David]

No, there's nothing wrong with saying there is a creator.

Just expanding that to the notion of "god" is illogical.

It's like if I walk down the street and see a house, and since I can't prove the house created itself, I must logically believe something created it somehow, because it's there.

Yes. you can logically believe that.

But believing an entire story/history that is based on nothing, regarding the person who built the house, is not logical.

[Adrian]

you can't prove the house didn't create itself either, since you weren't there to witness the creation of the house.

But I do not need to prove the housse didn't create itself. I only need to have an issue with one side of the equation - the fact I can't prove it did create itself.

I do not need to then consider whether I can prove it didn't.

you are arguing yourself in circles mate.

No, I'm not. I'm definitely arguing in one direction only.

And that direction is that creators exists because they must exist. Nothing comes from nothing.

[David]

I believe in God like I believe in the Pied Piper.

Sounds interesting. Didn't happen.

[David]

[Adrian]

No, there's nothing wrong with saying there is a creator.

Just expanding that to the notion of "god" is illogical.

The fundamental notion of God is that he is a creator though. That's about all there is to it actually.

Perhaps your meaning of the word and my meaning of the word differ slightly.

I don't agree with all the Christian mumbo jumbo about judgement, and sin, and all that crap. I don't think God cares either to be honest.

Yes. you can logically believe that.

But believing an entire story/history that is based on nothing, regarding the person who built the house, is not logical.

Not only can I believe it, I think I must believe it. I don't really have a choice in the matter. If I choose not to believe it, then I must find an alternative explanation, which I think I'd struggle to do.

I'm not believing an entire story or history. I'm only believing in Its existence.

[Adrian]

How many times must I put up with that.

I get it at least once a week at a certain venue.

[David]

You've mentioned that God is a male, and god "thinks" (by not caring)

That's more backstory than I'm willing to buy in to!