SHIPS

[Laura]

This may be slightly off topic, so I understand if it's moved to a different spot on the forum. If you can't play more than a couple of times per week, that's not NPL's problem. Personally, I have one regular venue that I play at and was fortunate enough to get into the finals via the top 5 last season after ranking 2nd there and it looks as though I may be able to do the same for this season. It's a small venue, with not many runners on a regular basis, but I don't believe that's the only reason I qualified. Each week I try and improve my game, not to satisfy other people but to prove to myself that I can do it. I play poker because I enjoy the game itself, i enjoy the social atmosphere and it has enabled me to break through certain barriers on a personal basis. I don't understand why someone would be worried about the potential masses of people who miss out on getting to the finals - it's a competition, so shouldn't you just focus on getting yourself to the finals? It's possible to get to the finals just by playing one venue if that's all you can do each week, so I'm as curious as anyone, Cougar - if all you're worried about is the finals and the people that miss out, why are you playing? It's a competition - compete, play to the best of your ability, and don't blame others if you don't make it.

[bennymacca]

head of nail and hammer have come into contact there laura and luke

[AceLosesKing]

Last night I posted some pretty radical views as to how I perceive the current State of Play with NPL. My post was removed as I obviously offended someones sensitivities.

Firstly, in an open forum I have the right to express my thoughts- forum members can either agree or disagree- that's the whole idea of having an open forum. How dare you remove my post.

YES! Exactly!

A man is not a camel- don't know who first said it but we have all heard it.... well I'm afraid I've had enough. I started playing because I enjoy the company, something to do instead of watching repeats on TV but I'm done. My workload and other commitments prevent me from playing even the basic number of games to even qualify for anything. And the trouble is even when I play there is no equity- when I bet everyone folds because The Cougar only plays premium hands or I get squeeze played because some donkey wants bragging rights to say he put The Cougar out. I've been pissed on more times recently than the toilet lollies in the urinals.

I would like however to say say thankyou to all those people I've come to know and to the venues that have made me so welcome.

I would also like to stick my finger up NPL's bum for letting the "bigger is better" marketing practice put hundreds of small time players, single parents with limited childcare, shiftworkers and the self employed, out of the competition by no longer offering them anything. But you will still have a minority of players who role up eight times a week to boast about their 40+ average when in the real world they average 18. Long live the "Spirit of the Game"
This paragraph was removed by Garth because of the mention of gambling and the premise of promoting gambling.
My record at Poker stands on its own two feet

The Cougar- I love the thrill of the hunt
or I used to. I'm leaving one zoo to go to another.

While I think this post is a load of crap (argument wise), I don't see why the gambling section couldn't have just been removed and the original post left intact. It has merits. Removing the entire post (without notifying Cougar, I assume) is the only reason he posted this topic.

Sad to see you go, Cougar.

Hi Everyone,
I would just like to add that everyone is entitled to their opinion and thoughts and in most instances are free to express these opinions on this forum.As long as these opinions do not insult or attack any players or staff these are fine to post on these sites.

No. I've heard of numerous instances when players expressed their dislike at NPL, or their way a particular system is run, and if it puts NPL in a bad light, it disappears. I voiced my opinion to Des on this very matter just last night.

What the moderators and myself are becoming upset about is the lack of constructive criticism been offered by the small minority when they do post their obviously negative comments.

From my PM to Des last night (reposted here because its basically what I was going to say anyway):

PM start

Must we be constructive at every opportunity? Short of completely bagging NPL, I don't see why we've got to be constructive at every opportunity. Yeah, I don't like the chip race - that shouldn't mean I'm not allowed to express my dislike at it. I'm dealing with it. If I was running the comp, I'd do things differently, but I'm not, so I shut up and keep on playing. Is this a concentration camp or something? Only say good things about NPL or don't at all?

PM end

(My (and everyone else's) chip race posts were left intact, in case anyone was wondering. I was just using that as an example.)

I dearly love NPL - I have no qualms with how your operation is run. But you're going to find people that do. And if they don't like something, they're going to tell you about it - what better place then the NPL forum? Its less confrontational than face to face, the Internet gives people anonymity. They should have the right to tell you they don't like something. Abusing or completely degrading Staff or NPL, yes, that's out of line, but it seems to me that anything not in line with the view of the Moderators goes.

You'll probably skip over this whole paragraph, but I'm going to tell you how you might be able to fix your problem with criticism.

1. Ease up a little bit.

2. Get rid of some Moderators. You have 9 moderators for a group of maybe 30 regular posters, a massive oversight. And it seems to me that some of you (not mentioning any names) were just thrown into the position, no previous experience necessary. Looks like the only qualification you need to be a Mod is to be friends with one.

3. Create a section where NPL players can express their dislike in a respectful manner. Because no matter how many posts are censored, you're always going to get people complaining. At least this way they've got a place where they know they can talk about issues and not be censored.

i think that some of the people on this site are very thin skinned.

Agree.

On topic: I think entry to the state finals is completely fair. Obviously, if you're playing at more than one venue you're going to have more chances of qualifying - a good system. Reward the players that play more, I say. If you only have the time to play one game a week, this isn't NPL's fault.

[Garth Kay]

AK,
There have been 4 deleted threads in total. One was an attack on a staff member, the other two were posts about the competition in this state and both cast them in a negative light.
The other one was a tongue in cheek topic on chip values and was not required.
Other posts that have been removed, that I am aware of, have been either personal attacks on staff or players.
You will find that there is plenty of posts on here with people disagreeing or debating about a number of things that the NPL do:
1.) Chip racing.
2.) State Leaderboard
3.) Qualification Process
4.) Passport Procedure
5.) Staff playing in tournaments
6.) Rules and new rulings been implemented
7.) Staff attitudes on a general basis
8.) Points system for the teams event
9.) State finals prize payouts and changes
10.) I am sure there are more.
We will accept most opinions on any level. And I will accept any negative feedback on any issue within reason. What I won't accept is a negative post to either start a flame or just for the sake of it. People are entitled to their opinion and as previously stated if you do have a serious problem or issue email me and this will be resolved.
I saw what you posted last night, how is your post in any way relevant to the post or the spirit of this forum? And you do forget that due to the hard work and forethought of the small few this forum is bought to you. Noone wishes to see dispersions cast upon their creation or for it to be used in a whollely negative manner.

[Garth Kay]

Oh and two more things:

Garth Kay wrote:
Hi Everyone,
I would just like to add that everyone is entitled to their opinion and thoughts and in most instances are free to express these opinions on this forum.As long as these opinions do not insult or attack any players or staff these are fine to post on these sites.


No. I've heard of numerous instances when players expressed their dislike at NPL, or their way a particular system is run, and if it puts NPL in a bad light, it disappears. I voiced my opinion to Des on this very matter just last night.

As far as I am concerned you are wrong, all posts that have been removed have been removed for a reason. Most posts will be edited to remove any items that may infringe upon the rules of this forum or guidelines set up by NPL.

If I was running the comp, I'd do things differently, but I'm not, so I shut up and keep on playing.

What exactly would you do differently? I am interested in hearing this? Since coming to work for NPL in SA I like to think I have done the best job possible and there are several other companies who think so as well. But in the end I know I am not going to please everybody with any protocol, ruling, procedure, etc....
And if I did post the reasoning behind every single move I make over here I would be spending almost 6 hours a day writing on this forum. The many changes I make or processes I ask staff to implement are done for a reason and the reasoning is not often easily seen by players. Eventually if you are smart enough you will end this year, look back and say wow now it all makes sense. Often procedures are bought into place to make way for new promotions/education of players in preparation for bigger things.
In saying this I would like to add the following three items:
1.) More prizes on their way, and it will be an interesting time.
2.) Every season will not just be a 20k state final.
3.) We like to bring all players up to a level where if they do play in a casino tournament they are fully armed and prepared for what rules and procedures a casino operates by.

I've gone a little bit off track here, but I am so looking forward to the next six months.

[Des]

ALK,

1) The posts about chips races were left because it was a discussion about something that happens in tournaments across the world. We are trying to educate people on how and why they are done. Thus it was a learning experience for everyone.

2) As for the post I removed of yours. Well we have a venue manager come on here, offering prizes etc to get more numbers to his venue. Kudo's to him. The venue manager is trying his best, and then you come on here and make a stupid comment which basically put into question his abilities as a venue manager. If they don't think they can get the numbers to make a profit then they wouldn't be offering cash prizes. FYI other venues are offering $200 per week in cash. You're comment offered nothing to the post. Hence it was removed.

FYI the reason we moderate this is forum is because in the past, other forums have been created and basically turned into an all out fight fest. Bagging venues, bagging td's, bagging everything. We are trying our best to keep the negative out, and the positive in.

If you have negative opinions, we arent asking you to keep them to yourself. But there is a process to sort issues out... and thats by going through Garth.

As for this site...well it is paid out of David's pocket. If you don't like his choice on moderators, maybe you should PM him. If anyone has problems with me, PM me.

[Nathan Butler]

Let me set an Example out for everyone....

Saying "I don't like the chip race, i feel this method would be better <insert method here>"

That is constuctive critism.

Saying "I dont like chip race"

This is just whinning....

It wastes time writing, it wastes time reading.... and at the end of the day nothing has changed.

This is an open forum for NPL members, that being so does not give any Joe Blow the right to abuse that privlage. The NPL forum is regulated by both players and the NPL. This being said i remember and old saying. If you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all.

Nathan Butler
Mr CBD

[AceLosesKing]

AK,
There have been 4 deleted threads in total. One was an attack on a staff member, the other two were posts about the competition in this state and both cast them in a negative light.
The other one was a tongue in cheek topic on chip values and was not required.
Other posts that have been removed, that I am aware of, have been either personal attacks on staff or players.

Attacks on players/staff = need to be removed.

Competition in a negative light = I don't know what post you are referring to, and without reading it I can't really comment, but was that the only reason it was removed? Because it made NPL look bad?

You will find that there is plenty of posts on here with people disagreeing or debating about a number of things that the NPL do:
1.) Chip racing.
2.) State Leaderboard
3.) Qualification Process
4.) Passport Procedure
5.) Staff playing in tournaments
6.) Rules and new rulings been implemented
7.) Staff attitudes on a general basis
8.) Points system for the teams event
9.) State finals prize payouts and changes
10.) I am sure there are more.

Excellent point, Garth. I stand corrected.

We will accept most opinions on any level. And I will accept any negative feedback on any issue within reason. What I won't accept is a negative post to either start a flame or just for the sake of it. People are entitled to their opinion and as previously stated if you do have a serious problem or issue email me and this will be resolved.

If its just for the sake of it, shouldn't we be allowed to vent somewhere? If the post is intended as nothing more than an "I'm annoyed at something" - can't we tell other players that?

I saw what you posted last night, how is your post in any way relevant to the post or the spirit of this forum?

I assume you're talking about my post in the McQueens thread, yes? I'll tell you the same thing I told Des.

For reference, here's what I originally posted:

"Wow, $100 a week? No wonder you guys aren't making a profit."

This was in response to:

Hey guys matt here from McQueens just want 2 say thank you 2 all that have been supporting our venue. Our monthly prize for the Party Poker chip sets is on again starting 2 night. Would like 2 see more people at my venue $100 1st prize $50 for 2nd if numbers dont improve we will no longer be able 2 run poker at our venue. So please guys come down check it out its a great venue stamp system is fair and u can check out james in action lol. We also have regular bounty prizes meal vouchers etc

C Ya there
matt

My post was later edited to:

"Edit by Des: Try some constructive posts once in a while mate."

-----

As for your post "no wonder they aren't making a profit". How does this help a venue get more numbers?

It doesn't help a venue get more numbers. I've never been to McQueens. I, personally, could care less if they make a profit or not. If my personal feelings affected the way McQueens ran their game, they'd be firmly in the positive category, believe me. Of course, I don't want McQueens to stop running NPL, even though if doesn't affect me whatsoever.

I wouldn't even know whether McQueens make a profit or not - I was simply going by what the venue leader said.

They come on here and say they arent getting the numbers they like.. thus they offer cash prizes etc... and you just put them down.

Does this mean that I'm not allowed to express my disbelief? I'll most likely never attend McQueens, does that mean that I've got to come up with ideas on how they can get more players or not post at all? Having to turn over $150 a week, it just shocked me. I've heard various theories about how pubs pay NPL - $ per player, $ per TD... with venues that have to give excellent stamps to please their customers, especially in such a highly competitive area as the city, its hard to see how pubs make a profit.

I wasn't putting McQueens, or Matt, down. He basically implied it himself - I need more runners or I'm going to have to stop hosting weekly games. Why else would a manager do this? No profit. Did you see me telling Matt to "piss off, Venue X runs that night and I like them more! Nobody go to McQueens its an awful joint!" ? No. Simply replying to the venue leader's original statement.

-----

And you do forget that due to the hard work and forethought of the small few this forum is bought to you. Noone wishes to see dispersions cast upon their creation or for it to be used in a whollely negative manner.

I'm grateful for what David, Pete, Des, you and others have done. You've bought players together and through this forum, you're helping NPL grow. Which is a good thing. But the fact of the matter is, things aren't perfect here. There are problems (censorship). And I'm telling you how I think you can fix them. If you don't believe there's a problem, and I'm the only one here that thinks the forum is being censored, ok then. I'll either deal with it, let it go and keep posting or move on. I only started this whole argument because I've heard of other players expressing their dissatisfaction at the forum being censored, too.

Garth, on me wanting to run the comp: I was just talking about the chip race situation. I wasn't putting into question your abilities as NPLSA manager - I think the rest of the staff and you, in particular, do a great job. No, a fantastic job.

I don't want to run NPL. I'd do a sh*t job. All I was saying with that post is that if I was running the comp, I'd remove the chip races (and that's it). Nothing more, nothing less.

Saying "I dont like chip race"

This is just whinning....

It wastes time writing, it wastes time reading.... and at the end of the day nothing has changed.

Maybe the player isn't out to change anything. Maybe he simply wants to express his dislike at chip races. Is this not allowed? He's not saying that he wants chip races removed (in your example). He's not saying that he thinks NPL is a horrible organisation, or that your staff are idiots. All he's saying is that he doesn't like chip races.

This being said i remember and old saying. If you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all.

If you don't like what's being said, don't read it.

I just want to make this clear: I love NPL. I will continue to play every week - I have no issues with how their competition is run. My problem is with the forum, and how its being run.

[Luke05(Jamo)]

head of nail and hammer have come into contact there laura and luke

why????????

[bennymacca]

head of nail and hammer have come into contact there laura and luke

why????????

ok luke, if that was a bit clever for you

you hit the nail on the head - i was agreeing with you and laura's posts