has the standard of 888pl dropped?

[mr_smooth81]

seems since the online portion of the league was introduced, a few things have happened

1 - the freerolls are attracting the "d-word" players (example, the other night online, i raise preflop to about 10bb, blinds were around 50-100ish - had aa, get called, flop came rainbow, but suited, i push, get called with j2, she hits her flush on the river!!!)

2 - again online, seems to be attracting the dreaded "i'm going all in on every hand" type tossers, no matter what hand they have, they seem to win!!!!

3 - another thing i've noticed are the internet hero's, the type of guys that think that because they are behind a computer screen, they are invincible!!!!

it's farking infuriating!!!!!

sorry for the rant, just got busted with qq against 97 (guess what won!!!! and had the audacity to write haha suck it up on chat after) - i know theres nothing that really can be done about these wankers, but it frustrates the hell out of me!

[Brett Kay]

Hands get cracked

Don't you want to have you aces paid off?

Why raise so big preflop? 1k, attracting one caller, if the flop comes JJQ and they push all in do you call or fold? What hands are you putting them on?

The strategy side of it comes in, by learning player tendencies, working out whether they are calling stations, or Any Two Card players.

Even in a freeroll your skills can improve you just have to be willing to learn.

Even after 8 years i can still safely say i am a crap player.

[mr_smooth81]

i raised this much to avoid having to play against this woman, she was a calling station, and for 80% of the hand, it looked like a winner, just not when it mattered.. (i forgot to mention that there were allready small raises on the board, so i raised it up more)

i've been playing holdem for near enough to 15 years, and i'm the first to admit i'm a pretty ordinary card player, i would love to get better, but i'm useless at reading people (1 win from about 150 games would probably back that up) but to have someone laugh at you in almost a demeaning way because they cracked your aces with junk is pretty wrong.

one good thing about the online part is playing against all different sorts of people (not the same 30-40 people i usually play with at my local venue) and getting used to their style, but it's the minority as usual that ruin the fun..

i should point out that i am in no way trying to rip on 888pl, i think it's a great league (easily shits all over the inferior leagues), but it's just something i wanted to bring attention to and see if anyone else had noticed too.

[Brett Kay]

i raised this much to avoid having to play against this woman, she was a calling station, and for 80% of the hand, it looked like a winner, just not when it mattered.. (i forgot to mention that there were allready small raises on the board, so i raised it up more)

Should take a player not so that you have an idea for later situations. As for being a calling station, sometimes slowing down your betting when your heads up. Can easily net you the same result. Othertimes waiting until the river before getting it all in.

i've been playing holdem for near enough to 15 years, and i'm the first to admit i'm a pretty ordinary card player, i would love to get better, but i'm useless at reading people (1 win from about 150 games would probably back that up) but to have someone laugh at you in almost a demeaning way because they cracked your aces with junk is pretty wrong.

Seriously they made the mistake, the laughing in your face is them showing how little they know the game. On how to improve reading people, what do you do during a hand - once you are out do you follow the game? or do you start looking around waiting for the next hand?

Do you try and put people on a range of hands? Slowly work through the betting patterns for one player a night, and see how often you can guess their hand. once you can do one person correct about 70% of the time, start on two.

Always a slow slog, but worth it.

As for the 1 win in 150 games. Do you start of the game, thinking your donating to other players? Positive outlook? or are you thinking you need to be home by a certain time because of work the next day?

Next time you play, try and think of your win, think about how good it felt. Think about the times that you have outplayed a person, and think why you played that way. Suprisingly changing the mindset is an easy trick to improve your game.

one good thing about the online part is playing against all different sorts of people (not the same 30-40 people i usually play with at my local venue) and getting used to their style, but it's the minority as usual that ruin the fun..

i should point out that i am in no way trying to rip on 888pl, i think it's a great league (easily carp all over the inferior leagues), but it's just something i wanted to bring attention to and see if anyone else had noticed too.

Adjusting to different playing styles is huge in this game. The quicker you can realise how people play the better you will become. Obviously trying something different to change your game is always an option. Playing tight one night, then playing loose until you find a happy medium that you are comfortable with. Hell, even only playing hands with one spade in it?

One time i was down to one 500 chip, i had a two schilling piece, kept on tossing the coin, 2 or more heads i was all in, 2 or more tails i was folding. Managed to go from final 24 to final table, and got busted by a weaker hand. That was pure gambling and i had fun doing it.

[Torak]

Okay just a few things.
Firstly raising to 1k is probably a bad move. If a small raise happens before and you re-raise then most decent players will find a fold even with a semi premium hand. Other callers will either have strong cards or have no idea and this can be taken advantage of. 3-4 they will double you up. If you can pick the other 1 and get away from it then your way infront overall. Just take it in your stride. Make a note on the player for the next time.
As for the comments after beating you. Ive seen a few others, some rather bad discrimanatory comments, insults and spam abuse. Unfourtunatly most who do it haven't put a 888pl name onto there away account so cant find out who it is. If they do it once easiest way to stop it is to cancel chat between this player.
The level online does seem to be of a much lower standard, however there are quite a few very good players and if you can get past the others then your game will improve playing against these. In venue the level of play seems to me to be about the same on an overall level. The 15 week season seperates the stronger more consistant players from those of the weaker players.
You say you play at 1 regular venue. THis can be very good practice on improving you reading ability. I play at 1 venue and always qualify for states from this venue. Im not too worried about winning, yes its nice and ive won may fair share but i prefer to focus on putting people on hands and playing the people and stacks rather than the cards. Because of this ive improved my game out of site and have got to a point of occasionally visiting other venues and testing my skills against people i dont know and who dont know me.

[Luke05(Jamo)]

don't play the first 1/2 hour. then jump on should sort out some of ur problems less as skilled players should be gone by then

[bennymacca]

don't play the first 1/2 hour. then jump on should sort out some of ur problems less as skilled players should be gone by then

i say that you want less skilled players at your table. sure they are gonna smash you with a variety of hands from time to time (my aces got cracked by T7 sooooooted the other night) but for the most part, these players are only too happy to hand over their chips to you, so let them!

[Garth Kay]

I have a few points I would like to add to this, and I strongly suggest that some players take post it notes and stick it on their monitor.

1.) Always raise or re raise with AA. Some players are not skillful enough to play AA post flop, look to get as many chips in the middle pre flop as often as possible.

2.) AA will get cracked 1 in every 5 times The worst hand (7,2) in poker will beat AA 18 times out of 100. This is just statistically speaking, if variance decides to make you her bitch then you just have to roll over and take it.

3.) Variance always makes you her bitch We never truly remember the times we ran like god and sucked out four times on the river to win a tourney, but we certainly remember the times we had AA, KK and QQ all cracked by JJ in that one tournament that one time. This happens to all of us, embrace variance.

4.) Variance can be defeated though The greatest tool you have to beat variance and the impact she has on your game is simply volume of games played. If you could play an infinite amount of tournaments, and you never get your money in bad over that infinite string of tournaments variance's impact is minimised to such a degree that only statistics remain. Remember Volume of play is key to hurting variance.

5.) We are a league of players at 888PL with varying skill levels, playing styles and responsibilities. Some of us can play 2,000 games each season, others can play only 15. Some of us are new players who are experiencing NL Hold Em for the first time. We do not begrudge each other these facts but we do need to understand that each person is an individual and they have a right to play in any way they want.

6.) New players are good for the league who continue to grow our league and add new character and sustainability to the league. Without new players the league dies. I always suggest that when you have just been sucked out on by a new player, who thought 7,8 of diamonds was pretty and they flat called a five bet preflop and flopped the nuts, that you go back to when you first started playing and then I ask you to remember the moment when it became clear to you that playing any sort of hand that wasn't AA to a five bet pre became clear. We all started as new players and developed into the players we are today.

7.) Keyboard heroes are the biggest losers on the planet and Variance and Karma will make them their bitch People who hide behind anonymous screen names and slander and insult other players will eventually reap their own. They are people who grew up either not getting enough love from mum and dad or perhaps TOO much love from mum and dad. They are immature, disrespectful creatures who will never amount to much in life and they have become aware of this fact and the only glimmer of sunlight in their life is too try and ruin other normal and happy folk's day.

8.) To honour the keyboard heroes of our league we will start a thread where players can copy and past chat abuse and I will gladly add their names to the honour roll and give these players a genteel phone call they so thoroughly deserve. I also have no qualms about identifying these players through our Leader Boards.

9.) We all love poker in the end we all play this league, work as TC's or as management because we love this game. No matter what skill level, no matter if we are in the middle of the biggest downswing ever, no matter what insults I have thrown at me. We all love this game and will continue to play it in some way, shape or form, until the day we die. ''

I might be more skillful than some and I see some horrible plays, but I love this game and I want nothing more than to impart my knowledge and see other players grow into even more skilled players, so much so that Team 888PL eventually has some major titles and trophies to place on it's mantlepiece.

At the end of the day when all of this is going on and you do feel down you just need to ask yourself one question: Why do I play?

If the answer isn't obvious anymore it's time to take a break. If the answer is glaringly obvious then all the negative stuff isn't worth a consideration.

[the dols]

love your post Garth.

[bennymacca]

yep gold!

new sig for me as well.