How do you know you are winning player?

[Glyn Parsons]

Glyn can NOT have written that...

I can be and talk smart on occasion lol

[bennymacca]

the other weekend, you said "geez bacon you are red"


smartest thing you have ever said

[Bacon]

I pulled out a few Ranga jokes myself on Saturday, to this scottish bloke on the opposition.

[BigPete33]

Bacon, I will excuse you from being the subject of ranga jokes (from me) until Friday, because you scored a hat trick

That's a whole weeks immunity from ranga jokes! Is there no greater prize?, you custard guts orangutang


Back on topic....

Great post Bob.

Essentially, if you're playing online even semi seriously then you need/want a program like PokerTracker. You can download a trial version.
In simple terms it takes your saved hand histories (automatically, from supported sites) and then makes use of that historical data to provide you with all sorts of stats. It's up to you which stats are relevant for whichever thing you're wanting to know... eg: If you were to ask "Is it really true that mummalucky has actually folded preflop?" you could go in and see all the hands where you've sat at the same table and see for yourself that the answer would be "muahaha AS IF"

Just don't ask macca to explain anything about it, he's only interested in hearing from the shortlist of people in his head that he knows are already using it Love you macca, you elitist snob, you

[BigPete33]

This is off on a tangent, but has a lot of relevancd ot Glyn's earlier post.

This is directly copy/pasted from Full Tilt's pro tips thingamy, with the tip being by Phil Ivey.



When it comes to advice about poker, my attitude is very simple: seek it out, absorb it, but while you're at the table, forget it.

I'm a firm believer in learning the game by playing the game. I'm not saying there aren't a lot of great resources around to help players improve their games or that poker books and tutorials don't have their place. They do. However, the problem I see with people who rely on these kinds of aids is that they end up playing poker like someone else or - even worse - like everyone else.

One of the things that makes poker great is that it's a game where there's really no right or wrong way to play. Every player has their own approach to the game and the key, in my opinion, is to take the things you learn from other players and incorporate them into a style of play that works for you.

There are some players who take a very mathematical approach to the game, and for them, it works. They study the odds and make decisions based on whether they think they're getting the right price to commit their chips to a pot. It's a solid way to play, but the fact is, it's not the right approach for everyone. What's more, even the best of these players will tell you that math only takes you so far.

Calculating the odds can certainly help you decide whether you're making a smart move, but it doesn't take into account who you're playing against. There are many times when you can do all of the math you want and your decision still comes down to intangibles and a feeling about your opponent or the situation you're facing. Does this guy have a hand? Can I push him off the pot? Am I getting myself into trouble here? Even if the odds say you should play, your gut may be telling you something else, and that's something you can only develop by playing.

Relying too much on other peoples' advice can actually make it harder to develop this kind of reading ability because it tends to clutter up your head. You get so focused on thinking about odds, probabilities and strategies that you forget that you're playing against someone else and that you have to try and figure out what he or she is doing. Are they scared? Will they fold to pressure? Are they a maniac? In my opinion, these are the important things to keep in mind during a hand.

It's been said before, but it bears repeating. Poker isn't about the cards; it's about the players and the situations. Winning players understand that sometimes you have to take chances. Sometimes they work and other times they don't. Whether you win the hand or not, you have to make the play that you believe is best.

At the end of a hand or a session, go back and study the things you did well and be honest with yourself about where you made mistakes. Don't, however, overanalyze how you could have played a hand differently because this can negatively impact how you approach your next hand or session. Identify your mistakes, learn from them, and move on. Just because some play or move didn't work the way you wanted doesn't mean you were wrong to try it. As I said before, there are just some things that you have to learn by playing.

So here's my advice. Read this tip. Read other tips and poker books. Talk to your friends. Absorb as much information as you can. But at the end of the day you have to trust your instincts and play your own game - not someone else's.



So if we try to include that with Glyn's earlier comments, it really is possible to focus too much on the stats and lose sight of things. Absolutely everything should be treated as a piece of information, not just the numbers.

As for being a "winning" player - it's entirely relative.

Which set of criteria is being used to determine "winning"? Yours or someone elses?

It could be a simple case of "in front = winning", it just depends what the aim and the focus are.

[bennymacca]

As for being a "winning" player - it's entirely relative.

Which set of criteria is being used to determine "winning"? Yours or someone elses?

It could be a simple case of "in front = winning", it just depends what the aim and the focus are.

this is true, but if you are beating 1c/2c at a rate of 0.1bb/100 hands, even though you consistently do it for 1 million hands, can you really say you are a "winner?"

[BigPete33]

By definition, of course you can - not sure if anyone would necessarily be super duper happy with it, but it's certainly not losing.

This is why I said it's relative.

It's somewhat of an arbitrary line.

What would you, yourself count as "winning"? Is that the same as what a large amount of others think? Does it even matter if it's different?

As long as you're not in the "losing" category I think the answer would be along the lines of "whatever you are personally satisfied with".

[bennymacca]

reading other forums, it seems to be the general consensus that 5-10BB/100 hands is considered a decent win rate for a solid winner at that level. obviously its all relative, but at some point you need to put a figure on what you are doing. whether that is BB/100, $/hour etc etc.

[Bacon]

but at some point you need to put a figure on what you are doing.

Why?

Can't a player be happy with "not losing"? especially if poker is a hobby?

[bennymacca]

yes, but then they are not a winning player, they are a breakeven player