What IS it with this new 'trend' of overplaying flush draws?

[Garth Kay]

AJG i think you completely misunderstand if you think people are going to open shove for 20+ BB with AA or KK. What they are talking about it after there has been a raise and possibly a reraise in front of you, there is no point in flat calling. You should want to get as many chips in the pot pre-flop with these hands, knowing that you are dominating almost everyone.

Correct me if im wrong, but from your posts, if there was a raise and a reraise in front of you, and you are holding KK, then you would just be flatting so as not to potentially risk all of your stack?? Im getting as many chips in the middle before the flop as i can with these hands.

Finally a sensible post.

Try communicating a little better guys, creating a scenario helps.

I would prefer the scenario of a raise, flat, flat, re raise and then my action.
Yes I do re raise here, more than likely all in depending on stack sizes.

Min raises, limping and flat calling FTL.

[AJG]

Deepstacked, I would call an allin with AA or KK, but you will NEVER see me raising allin preflop... only when I get shortstacked will I push preflop.

First hand of a tournament: Stacks 5K Blinds 25/50 (std 888PL bigger tourney), you get AA and its folded to you in MP, you gonna shove preflop?? Id rather win more than 75 with my Aces! (unless someone has KK or QQ to, then u might get a call)

Actually, I ammend that 'NEVER' statement before to: if there is a raise(es) in front of me, and my reraise will be more than 1/2 my chips (or it is already raised to 1/2 my chips), then I will push, but that hardly ever happens...
I meant if I am the first raiser, I wont push preflop deepstacked.

This sounds like quite an explicit scenario to me?

And yes macca I have seen people open push the very first hand of a tourney with QQ! (a prev NPL State Final & online)
And as you cen see from my OP and quote here, I didnt say I would flat...

[AJG]

Min raises, limping and flat calling FTL.

[AJG]

AJG i think you completely misunderstand if you think people are going to open shove for 20+ BB with AA or KK.

---->

Blinds 50/100. First hand since Zack sits down, a new player min raises UTG because he thinks its the right thing to do (it was his first game and he was copying us, I think). I look down at [Kh] [Ks] and jam for 3k

Ok, so its not exactly an open shove, but the only action before him was UTG minraise...

[Garth Kay]

Deepstacked, I would call an allin with AA or KK, but you will NEVER see me raising allin preflop... only when I get shortstacked will I push preflop.

First hand of a tournament: Stacks 5K Blinds 25/50 (std 888PL bigger tourney), you get AA and its folded to you in MP, you gonna shove preflop?? Id rather win more than 75 with my Aces! (unless someone has KK or QQ to, then u might get a call)

Actually, I ammend that 'NEVER' statement before to: if there is a raise(es) in front of me, and my reraise will be more than 1/2 my chips (or it is already raised to 1/2 my chips), then I will push, but that hardly ever happens...
I meant if I am the first raiser, I wont push preflop deepstacked.

This sounds like quite an explicit scenario to me?

And yes macca I have seen people open push the very first hand of a tourney with QQ! (a prev NPL State Final & online)
And as you cen see from my OP and quote here, I didnt say I would flat...

Talking to the other boys when they make comments like - I am wanting to get all in preflop.

I am pretty sure when benny the cunt makes that comment he is not talking about open shoving his +< 10bb stack but rather in certain situations he is looking to re raise or raise all in to isolate or remove some limpers from the pot.

[Finno]

Blinds 50/100. First hand since Zack sits down, a new player min raises UTG because he thinks its the right thing to do (it was his first game and he was copying us, I think). I look down at [Kh] [Ks] and jam for 3k

Ok, so its not exactly an open shove, but the only action before him was UTG minraise...

This example is from an NPL pub game where stacks are pretty low in comparison to the blinds, so shoving there was the right thing to do in that situation when you factor in blinds and those who've already called. Especially when you consider that guys like Tommo (who was calling everything with anything) were still to act.

[AJG]

It was in response to maccatak saying I misunderstood if I thought people would open shove KK or AA with 20+BB

And in the hand I quoted, AK had 30BB!

[bennymacca]

that hand with kings was in a pub game where we dont take it seriously at all. so a jam on anything preflop is standard


and yeah, pretty much what garth said about the aces and kings.

i believe that some people are too passive preflop, and end up only raising a small amount and/or calling a raise, and ending up in multiway pots, out of position. this is a recipe for disaster in my opinion.

if there has been a lot of limpers before me, and i am in position, i have no troubles at all raising or re-raising. i rarely get tricky and start flatting raises etc. with these sorts of hands, i wanna be heads up, not 3 or 4 way.

having said this, am pretty aggressive, and so i will raise to isolate when in position with a lot more than just aces and kings, to balance my range.

[AceLosesKing]

AJG: I'm getting at least one caller there. Its a pub game.

[BigPete33]

Try communicating a little better guys

That does sound pretty good Garth