Cash buy in events to commence in Season 2!

[muzzington]

I don't understand how some people just stare blankly at the felt and then everyone else, yet forget to put their blind out, and it's multiple rounds this happens!

I like if there's at least 2 people on a table eager to get the antes and blinds out. I really don't want a repeat of the rebuy event where we got through a total of two hands in 12 minutes.

This is wishful thinking, but I wouldn't mind a 30 second clock as well.

[Bacon]

because online, its done for them.

Just like the person who has just dealt forgetting to cut the cards, after they have just had to wait for it to happen to them.

[Bob B]

Once again I'm going to be seen as taking on the role of the "Devils Advocate". To be honest I don't mind airing my opinions as it creates more individual thoughts.

Some of you will read what I have to say and ask why the hell didn't we think of that?? And others will say, here he goes again jumping on his soap box with more of his crap. To be honest, I don't really care one way or the other. But, if I were to just sit back and say nothing then it wouldn't be me.

So for starters, there was very little player input if any as to "What would you like to have at your venue, CBI or Freeroll". I'm pretty sure it wasn't discussed at the Wheatsheaf other than when it was sprung on us last week. I realise the pub had made that decision and I really hope the punters support the pub as they have done so in the past.

The next thing that comes to mind is that I just find it so difficult to understand, why, was it necessary to complicate the very first step up from "FREEROLL PUB POKER" to "CASH BUY IN PUB POKER" with "ANTES" and "SUPER TURBO BLINDS"???

I know quite a few of us have experienced or feel we are more than capable of playing together in the above situation. But let's face it, the majority of our NPL punters are "I'm going down to the the pub or club and have a few beers with the boys and maybe have a game of poker. Don't wait up for me luv see you when I get home".

Obviously NPL had put a lot of thought and internal discussions into what they need to make it work for them. Garth threw some "what ifs" at us via a couple of polls and open discussions here on the forum. Obviously to gain the various responses and opinions of some 10 or 20 regular forum guys and gals.

But realistically other myself and a few of others on here the responses were one or two liners like. "Oh wow, that's great Garth I can't wait", sort of thing. Where's the value in that? Had they annalised it a little more and threw some queries out there things may have been different.

In hindsight a "Players Rep Council" could have been formed at the beginning of the year with players representing each region. NPL could have tabled their format and the group could have offered their opinions and discussed it more openly warts and all behind closed doors.

That being said about all the coulda, shoulda, woulda, out of the way what do I have to offer as a positive suggestion.

1. Where possible start at the CBI's at 7pm.

2. Drop the antes completely for the rest of the season.

3. Or, if you really have to have antes because of time constraints, bring them in for the last one or even two or more tables with a designated dealer/s.

I realise a lot venues only have the one contractor but I'm sure there are punters like myself quite capable and if I was asked to deal to help finish on time I'd gladly offer my services.

That's my lot gotta go to the docs get some more "grumpy pills" for tonites game at the Wheaty. Checking my pulse rate to see if I can handle that crown for one more time.

[Scotty]

2. Drop the antes completely for the rest of the season.

3. Or, if you really have to have antes because of time constraints, bring them in for the last one or even two or more tables with a designated dealer/s.

Garth suggested this afew pages back;

25/50 15 Minutes
50/100 15 Minutes
100/200 15 Minutes
200/400 15 Minutes
BREAK 10 Minutes
400/800 10 Minutes
600/1200 10 Minutes
1000/2000 10 Minutes
1500/3000 10 Minutes
2500/5000 500 10 Minutes
4000/8000 500 10 Minutes
BREAK 10 Minutes
6000/12000 1000 10 Minutes
10000/20000 1000 10 Minutes
15000/30000 2000 10 Minutes
25000/50000 2000 10 Minutes
40000/80000 5000 CAPPED

How does that look? We still need to be looking at an 11pm finish at the latest.

During CBI's colour out of chips will occur on a table by table basis during play.

Thoughts on this structure?

... which has antes being introduced at level 9 - quite a ways into the tournament.

This would be what you'd like to see, in regards to your 3rd point, Bob?

[rcon]

1. Where possible start at the CBI's at 7pm.

2. Drop the antes completely for the rest of the season.

3. Or, if you really have to have antes because of time constraints, bring them in for the last one or even two or more tables with a designated dealer/s.

LOL - I think you'll find these suggestions have all been made in this very thread already. But that is ok, you can put your unique view forward

Some of you will read what I have to say and ask why the hell didn't we think of that??

and some will say "hey, I posted that already!"

So for starters, there was very little player input if any as to "What would you like to have at your venue, CBI or Freeroll". I'm pretty sure it wasn't discussed at the Wheatsheaf other than when it was sprung on us last week. I realise the pub had made that decision and I really hope the punters support the pub as they have done so in the past.

This this is probably a valid point, but there may well have been more informal collection going on than we realise - and they would be drawing on experience from interstate.

I realise a lot venues only have the one contractor but I'm sure there are punters like myself quite capable and if I was asked to deal to help finish on time I'd gladly offer my services.

I believe one of the "others" does this - would be interesting to get some reports from people with first hand experience. My thoughts tho were that NPL was moving away from "amateur" style setups like this, ie. can't have "Dealers" on final 2 tables.

The next thing that comes to mind is that I just find it so difficult to understand, why, was it necessary to complicate the very first step up from "FREEROLL PUB POKER" to "CASH BUY IN PUB POKER" with "ANTES" and "**SUPER** SUPER TURBO BLINDS"???

Combined with the "can't sit with your mates", I think this will be an issue.

[Tim Harry]

Had they annalised it a little more....

Sounds painful Bob?!

Bob, what you need to understand is that with double start stacks, double re-buys & double add-ons we need to adjust the structure to ensure that the games finish within roughly a 3 1/2 hr time frame. If we were to run it at the standard style free roll blind structure then your venue stamp policy would definately go up. Reasoning?: We'd have to charge them more because the game would run longer thus meaning NPL have to pay staff more for working extra hours. As it is, the average tournament runs 1/2 longer than it used to beacause we changed the passports from 500 to 1000 and then from 1000 to 1000/2000. As it stands NPL contractors are still working for the same amount even though they do the extra hours. I'm sure you out of anyone Bob would be the first one to voice your distate at what you believed was a venue trying to cash in on you with higher stamp charges.

Basic cause & effect. You want larger starting stacks with more value for your passports you are going to be paying higher blinds & antes. Extending game lengths mean more $$$ required to pay NPL contractors & more $$$ required to pay venue staff starting earlier and/or finishing later.

While the first run blind structure was far from what we wanted it did give us valuable information. We will be trialling a revised structure at the Wheatsheaf tonight & I will be there to get the feedback from those players. Are you going to be one of those players Bob or are you going to offer your comments on the structure from the comfort of your living room? [challenge thrown down:)]

[Garth Kay]

Had they annalised it a little more....

Sounds painful Bob?!

Bob, what you need to understand is that with double start stacks, double re-buys & double add-ons we need to adjust the structure to ensure that the games finish within roughly a 3 1/2 hr time frame. If we were to run it at the standard style free roll blind structure then your venue stamp policy would definately go up. Reasoning?: We'd have to charge them more because the game would run longer thus meaning NPL have to pay staff more for working extra hours. As it is, the average tournament runs 1/2 longer than it used to beacause we changed the passports from 500 to 1000 and then from 1000 to 1000/2000. As it stands NPL contractors are still working for the same amount even though they do the extra hours. I'm sure you out of anyone Bob would be the first one to voice your distate at what you believed was a venue trying to cash in on you with higher stamp charges.

Basic cause & effect. You want larger starting stacks with more value for your passports you are going to be paying higher blinds & antes. Extending game lengths mean more $$$ required to pay NPL contractors & more $$$ required to pay venue staff starting earlier and/or finishing later.

While the first run blind structure was far from what we wanted it did give us valuable information. We will be trialling a revised structure at the Wheatsheaf tonight & I will be there to get the feedback from those players. Are you going to be one of those players Bob or are you going to offer your comments on the structure from the comfort of your living room? [challenge thrown down:)]

Post of the year from NPL management. Explained better than I ever could.

But I would like to add that a competitive advantage must be maintained at all times, and going directly to the marketplace to trial events or receive feedback is detrimental as we lose that first to market competitive edge if our competitors are aware of our full plans.

We launch, we trial, and we adjust. It's the way of product evolution, especially when you are offering a service to a consumer base that is in varying stages of the consumer cycle.

The CBI events will eventually become a mainstay for those seeking the next step and a challenge. Not all CBI events will be ran as the turbo model, but due to business constraints most will.

The majority of CBI event players will be similar to that of RCON, Murrins, and Big Pete's. Hence why we came to the forum to throw up a few queries. But we will never go to the greater market place to discuss our plans and what the consumers think of it on the grand scale.

Hence why I suggested a player council. But the train of thought got derailed and now we have put that on the back burner.

And venues asking players whether they want or freeroll or CBI is a good concept but venue managers should be well aware of their consumers and what they require as well as what is in the best interest of the venue.

Market trends in other states and other countries indicate a 60/40 split of a mature player base in terms of what they want CBI/Freeroll. And I expect that SA will get their quicker than most.

We just need to find a satisfactory middle ground in terms of time spent at the tournament level and a reasonable blind structure. Accelerated blind periods with a more relaxed structure isn't that bad, it's just that it is a self dealt tournament. And yes the mature consumer will have to train themselves to deal and do it efficiently.

And I do like the 30 second time limit. I mean really like it!

[maccatak11]

Ok here's a question. Longer tournaments will indeed require contractors to be paid for the extra hours that they do.

A new charge to players in CBI events is an equipment hire fee of $3? (or was it $4) per game. Couldn't this extra money (which would total $120-$200 at most venues) be used for this?

If not, where will this new fee be going? Are the costs of running a CBI tournament different to a freroll, because players have never had to pay this fee before.

Cynically, it appears this charge is a "well we can legally charge players entry fees now so lets increase our profit margins". By the way, i don't personally agree with those sentiments, but i can understand players who might think that way.
Or does the extra fee go to the venues to improve the money that they make? If this is the case, then venues shouldnt complain about being open an extra half hour or so.

I realise that as the overall standard of play in NPL venues gradually improves, players will ask for a greater opportunity to show their skill (i.e. deeper stacks, relaxed levels) and its difficult to fit this into a timeframe, but if NPL wants to continue to provide the best poker product and the best poker playing experience around, then changing things like start times or the length of a tournament are things worth considering.

[Garth Kay]

Ok here's a question. Longer tournaments will indeed require contractors to be paid for the extra hours that they do.

A new charge to players in CBI events is an equipment hire fee of $3? (or was it $4) per game. Couldn't this extra money (which would total $120-$200 at most venues) be used for this?

If not, where will this new fee be going? Are the costs of running a CBI tournament different to a freroll, because players have never had to pay this fee before.

Cynically, it appears this charge is a "well we can legally charge players entry fees now so lets increase our profit margins". By the way, i don't personally agree with those sentiments, but i can understand players who might think that way.
Or does the extra fee go to the venues to improve the money that they make? If this is the case, then venues shouldnt complain about being open an extra half hour or so.

I realise that as the overall standard of play in NPL venues gradually improves, players will ask for a greater opportunity to show their skill (i.e. deeper stacks, relaxed levels) and its difficult to fit this into a timeframe, but if NPL wants to continue to provide the best poker product and the best poker playing experience around, then changing things like start times or the length of a tournament are things worth considering.

The equipment hire fee goes directly to venues. Whilst I don't like discussing business practices I have always liked the transparent approach. The fee is a value add to venues and a way for them of increasing revenue.

It is also an accepted part of tournament buy ins that there is generally an admin fee associated with buy in's. The good thing is that with venues have a substantially lower cost involved in supplying events they may be more willing to eventually guarantee nightly prize pools or supply additional qualifier seats to monthly qualifiers or the Grand Final (slight spoiler on new comp structure).

Venues will be charged slightly more in the form of an addition to a flat rate.

This is to increase our revenue slightly as we will staff the majority of CBI events with two contractors, irrespective of the 60+ mark currently set.

[Bacon]

i assume all venues own the tables that they use. And npl has its own supply for overflow, champs, etc.