Player representative council

[Shannon]

We allow them to contribute and discuss what they want, but do you honestly believe that some posts are not affected in the slightest by ulterior motives at times?

This is a public forum isn't it?

I have not said or inferred anything at all about anything. Business is Business as I learnt the hard way. But I have learnt my lesson. I learn fast.

So kick me off your precious forum, you fart.

[David]

Shannon,

I don't really think what Garth said was wrong, nor having a cheap shot.

[Garth Kay]

We allow them to contribute and discuss what they want, but do you honestly believe that some posts are not affected in the slightest by ulterior motives at times?

This is a public forum isn't it?

I have not said or inferred anything at all about anything. Business is Business as I learnt the hard way. But I have learnt my lesson. I learn fast.

So kick me off your precious forum, you fart.

Talk about missing the point. Everything is subjective I guess.

[Garth Kay]

I voted for option 3.

Essentially, I just would not trust another player except if I already knew them very well. This is because they are just another player and not someone with any real authority or responsibility. The fact they would still be playing doesn't sit well either.

Any answers that they might be able to give would be coming from those that have always been there to ask in the first place.

I see the main reasons for things not being queried/suggested as:
a) people are just plain lazy.
b) a complaint can often be boiled down to "that sucks because I didn't get my own way".

At this point in time we as players already have available to us:
a) Senior management (who often make themselves available eg: Garth and Tim)
b) TD's at every single venue who let's not forget are getting paid.
c) this forum.


Of perhaps greater benefit is encouraging players with any concerns or suggestions to actually get off their arses and learn to use their voice.
How many players sit there claiming not to know something but you'll find them talking during the TD's intro speech? Or worse, see something and then complain about it privately to their own circle of friends yet do nothing about it.

I support the idea of having a group of people doing the job Garth described (is a good idea and definitely has some merit) but stuffed if I support the thought of them being players.

I really feel that would lose a large slice of the integrity NPL currently offers.

In regards to this: what if we had the major forum contributors form this council, they already have a large part of management's ears. They have proven to have the best interests of NPL and players at heart. And they do communicate a large volume of ideas, initiatives, discussion points, queries as is to NPL staff.

So if we declared selected major forum contributors as points of contact for the majortiy of NPL players not willing to discuss anything openly on a public forum would that work?

[Garth Kay]

A big DITTO on what BigPete said.

I know. I know.
The worlds gone carp.
Yes I did agree with something Pete said...

Maybe ex contractors, who were Rm's,could form a part of this council?

[rcon]

So if we declared selected major forum contributors as points of contact for the majortiy of NPL players not willing to discuss anything openly on a public forum would that work?

As you say, I think this happens somewhat informally already, but if it was to be formalised, I think you'd alienate those who for whatever reason, aren't fans of the forum - someone them don't even have computers! And I'm sure some will argue this is entierly their problem, but the idea here was to be inclusive.

I'm still considering my vote, as I'm still considering exactly how I'd like to see something like this done.

[Garth Kay]

So if we declared selected major forum contributors as points of contact for the majortiy of NPL players not willing to discuss anything openly on a public forum would that work?

As you say, I think this happens somewhat informally already, but if it was to be formalised, I think you'd alienate those who for whatever reason, aren't fans of the forum - someone them don't even have computers! And I'm sure some will argue this is entierly their problem, but the idea here was to be inclusive.

I'm still considering my vote, as I'm still considering exactly how I'd like to see something like this done.

I'm open to all and any suggestions.

I take it that if we go to the basic format and build from there. I think everyone agrees that something like this is a good move forward, just boundaries need to be set.

[Nathan Butler]

I hope people start to see this opportunity for what it is rather than continue the ego-sledging-fest that is currently going on.

The council, if created should definitely avoid just becoming a popularity show. I know this company well and can say with confidence that any reasonable application would be considered fairly.

Maybe rather than debate who could or who should, we should discuss what these people would actually do/achieve as council members. Also to help make my point, i believe that an elected council member should have the NPL and it's members at heart, they should be proactive in achieving this goal and look only to make the NPL a better community as a whole. Of all the fore-mentioned members, many just sit on this forum and argue their opinionated take on the world with-out any understanding of the NPL and a business let alone any understanding of joe blow next door who plays in another region.

If we go ahead with this idea, becoming a council member will not be a walk in the park. I envision requirements... I think that a council member should have to play one to two regulars games a week. Council members will need to be in touch with the league and its needs, this requirement alone could remove many great NPL supporters through circumstance.

There really is a lot to consider. So rather than worry about why you wouldn't be elected or if some one you like or don't would be, worry about just making the league a better place. Hell, if everyone did that would this council idea have even popped up?!

Nathan Butler

[Bob B]

Hi there Garth and others. It's another long one but if it wasn't it wouldn't be me, would it????

The council would also act as a tribunal, in conjunction with the PM

In conjunction with the PM. But we can scrap this aspect.

Garth, I believe that would be a step in the right direction. Leaving the issuing of penalties and if necessary bans would be best when left up to the NPL and it's employees.

To Shannon;
I think it's ditto for you too Shannon in both Brett and Garths posts.

I think it's acceptable to say that anyone working for an alternate provider (read: competition, sort of) would not be permitted to sit on an NPL players rep council. Most of you are all stating there is a big enough conflict of interest simply from a players perspective. At the moment we have three contributors to this forum who work for alternative suppliers of pub poker. We allow them to contribute and discuss what they want, but do you honestly believe that some posts are not affected in the slightest by ulterior motives at times?

But why would you have to bring my brother into this Bob?

Unfortunately, I have no idea how or why I typed Bretts name as it was meant to be Bruces name and his comments to which I was refering Shannon too. (could it be I have sub man thoughts on Brett and Macca)

However, I'm sure I would be on the most "unwanted Garth list" M8.

How far off the mark you are Bob. Bob, I will be brutally honest here: you can be an absolute dick on this forum at times.

If I was a sensitive bloke, or I were like some other readers I too would only see the negatives in your reply post and centre my reply on the "Dick" comment. I'm neither so lets move on.

But in person you are a fantastic bloke, and a well rounded individual in all aspects of his personal and professional life, who in the right environment could contribute so much more to NPL and Players in a different environment.

In regards to your personal views of me as a person I say, thank you for your kind words. And yes I'm sure I would or could be an asset and help make a difference to NPL.

Also you are one of the minority who bucks the trend and is a true individual in every sense of the word. And don't get me wrong, I can be a dick at times as well.

Would you want me to be any different Garth? Let's face it M8, we are of a similar mold, mine is just a little bit older. But let me ask you this, if you went into battle, who would you want on your team to cover your back? Me or a sheeplike person??????

As I have said before I'm not in favour of a players councillor also being reponsible for being part of a tribunal. To sit in and only offer a player point of view would be acceptable but not be part of the final decission making.

My major concerns are the unknown repercussions to a non NPL employee being responsible for banning a fellow player.

So, if you were to as you say "scrap this aspect" as in your first reply on here, then that's a different story. For what it's worth, you'd have my support in setting up a players code of conduct, set penalties, ethics etc if the need arises.

In closing here's an example that I was involved in a few years ago and why I believe it's best to leave tribunal decissins in NPL's hands.

As chief steward for an Australian Sprint Title in Perth. I made a decission that changed the outcome of a competitors final placing which in turn affected his prize money.

Had I not been employed by "Aust Sprintcar Control Council" I could and or would have been sued personally by the offending driver and or his car owner. The fact that I was an employee their only recourse was to take their dispute to the "disputes committee".

They too were also payed and the driver was required to post a $3,000 bond to have his case heard so as to stop petty hearings. My decission stood as is and the committee in fairness refunded his bond provided their was a sincere apology made to me.

Take care M8, and be true to yourself and don't forget to send some flowers to your mum and tell her you love her.

[BigPete33]

In regards to this: what if we had the major forum contributors form this council, they already have a large part of management's ears. They have proven to have the best interests of NPL and players at heart. And they do communicate a large volume of ideas, initiatives, discussion points, queries as is to NPL staff.

So if we declared selected major forum contributors as points of contact for the majortiy of NPL players not willing to discuss anything openly on a public forum would that work?

I thought you might be thinking something like that, so before I replied I tried to put myself in your average regular non-thinking players shoes.

The absolute underlying issue is getting them off their rear to actually ask something of ANYONE to begin with.

Assuming they did that, why would they (or should they) ask another player when there's a perfectly good, paid, TD or TA there to ask? If I didn't know me, I wouldn't trust me either and would be asking 'who the hell is this bloke?'. There would also be the perception of favourites to deal with.

If they don't want to speak face to face there's the forum and/or email (get a computer if you don't have one, it's TWO THOUSAND AND NINE!) or there's always the telephone.

I'm half expecting someone to say 'oh, but that isn't working as well as it could now' to which I reply in advance 're-read the underlying issue comment'. If they're not saying anything it's because they are lazy.