TD Participating in the NPL.

[AceLosesKing]

There's nothing wrong with TD's playing a regular tourny - if it's their day off. Its always good fun to play against NPL TD's, as their skill level is vastly superior to the majority of NPL players. Its good fun to actually play someone with talent.

And for everyone going on about TD's playing isn't fair to the competition... they can't get any points. They can't take anything away from you, except your chips.

WHICH IS WHAT EVERYONE ELSE IN THE ROOM CAN DO.

[BigPete33]

Hi again Rosemary, Happy New Year mate.

I have some questions for you....

1) In the example that you gave of husband and boyfriend being drawn out..... what the heck has that got to do with TD's playing?

IF (and I cannot possibly stress the word 'if' enough) there was cheating, then it's because they are dirty cheats - not because they are TD's.

2) For the same example, what did you do about it? Did you let any management know at the time? If you truly believed that was suspect, and if you said/did nothing, you are almost as much at fault as they allegedly are. Integrity is everyones responsibility. I would actually be very surprised if you didn't say something after the fact though.

3) A player pushing allin before you do has absolutely ZERO to do with what they do for a living. The way you described the TD at the final table with you really does just sound like a whinge. When some perspective is applied, them being on the final table with you actually does you a favour, because you are guaranteed to finish at least one place higher. Further to that, competing against players better than yourself can only improve your game, which again, is doing you a favour.
OK, so that one wasn't really a question

4) I mean this in the nicest possible way but WHY are players ringing YOU for things they aren't happy with? Clearly, you are not the NPL - and that is just ridiculous. Can players not speak for themselves?
I'm quite sure Garth has a mobile phone and an NPL email address for players to make use of if they feel the need. In fact, it's one of the reasons why we hold him in such high regard over here - he *always* made himself available for such concerns if/when they arose and he *always* took them seriously.

The more information getting to players first hand, rather than through someone else in between (such as yourself!), the better.

[AceLosesKing]

Excellent post, Pete.

[Bob B]

There's nothing wrong with TD's playing a regular tourny - if it's their day off. Its always good fun to play against NPL TD's, as their skill level is vastly superior to the majority of NPL players. Its good fun to actually play someone with talent.

And for everyone going on about TD's playing isn't fair to the competition... they can't get any points. They can't take anything away from you, except your chips.

WHICH IS WHAT EVERYONE ELSE IN THE ROOM CAN DO.

Obviously your attached Quote is not to be taken too seriously as you have not taken the time to think of what you are actually implying.

Surely your not suggesting that because someone puts on an NPL shirt they immediately become what was it you said? "Their skill level is vastly superior to the majority of NPL players. Its good fun to actually play someone with talent".

Have you actually played with some of the non thinking allin TD's who weren't any good at playing the game so they became TD"s???????

It was as bad as that dill on our table at the Kingy who said something like ........ "You don't need any skills to play NPL poker all you need is chips". How good was that when all he was doing was going ALLIN, ALLIN. If I want that sort of game I'll just hook up to any freeroll on the net and watch the play the first 2 or 3 rounds going allin with crap.

And now you say that because they are a TD their "SKILL LEVEL IS VASTLY SUPERIOR AND HAVE TALENT TOO!!!!!!!!...........WOW is that possible"!!!
I'M SURE SOME OF YOUR FRIENDS WOULD LOVE TO HEAR THAT YOU THINK THEY ARE SOME WHAT INFERIOR PLAYERS TO A TD. Myself included assuming I'm a friend that is LOL.

So, to be better I must resign myself as a player and become a TD. How long do I need to wait to be a superior player so I can whip your butt M8??

On a more serious note;
I seen your face when you thought you missed out on making the State finals at the Ark, when we told you Glendas top 50 finish didn't help you make top 5 at the Kingy. You looked devastated to say the least.

And do you remember how you felt when the guys on your table on the last Friday night at the Kingy when you needed to make points and were calling or raising you on purpose so you didn't make points???????

How did you feel? And how would you feel if it were a TD who had nothing to gain knocked you out????

I guess you'd feel about the same as I did at Para Hills a few seasons back when a TD did exactly the same thing to me and 3 other guys on our table.

We were down to around 24 runners and I needed to make points along with a couple of other guys on our table. I had a good stack that I was protecting but when he came to our table he changed the whole game.

He opened with I'm gonna knock you all out of the comp and steal your chips and he did. He played and raised nearly every hand with crap that just kept hitting and thought it was so funny.

Unfortunately he didn't care as he had bugger all to win or lose. Not a lot of skill attached to that sort of play, but he was a TD so I suppose he was showing us how good he was.

Anyway he managed to eliminate 3 of us who were either trying to make or stay in a top five position. Unfortunately I missed out by a very small margin on making top the top five.

Under different circumstances I may have made points had it been an NPL punter as I don't believe the same results would have occured.

I did air my disappointment at the time as I felt is was unfair for a TD to join a tourney when the points were so critical. Had it been earlier in the season knowing me as I do, I probably would have still felt it was wrong.

But, I guess it would not have been so obviously disappointing as the very last game of the season.

Hey if the TD's do play and I'm sure they have decided they are, then maybe it would be a good idea for the NPL to monitor it for a while and see what happens.

That's my lot on the subject and I intend to move on and just try to continue enjoying the game. And may I say my 3 F's are somewhat a little different to most.

Cheers Guys & Gals, I can't wait for the new season to start.

Oh, I forgot to say that I know there are some really, really, good players of all ranks out there in the NPL world. the TD's, management or simple minded punters like myself just enjoy playing the game.

[AceLosesKing]

It was as bad as that dill on our table at the Kingy who said something like ........ "You don't need any skills to play NPL poker all you need is chips". How good was that when all he was doing was going ALLIN, ALLIN. If I want that sort of game I'll just hook up to any freeroll on the net and watch the play the first 2 or 3 rounds going allin with crap.

"You don't need any skill to play free poker." And how hilarious it was

And now you say that because they are a TD their "SKILL LEVEL IS VASTLY SUPERIOR AND HAVE TALENT TOO!!!!!!!!...........WOW is that possible"!!!
I'M SURE SOME OF YOUR FRIENDS WOULD LOVE TO HEAR THAT YOU THINK THEY ARE SOME WHAT INFERIOR PLAYERS TO A TD. Myself included assuming I'm a friend that is LOL.

I've said this before, Bob. I mentioned it to Garth - the majority, if not all TD's in NPL (at least the one's that I've dealt with) - have a great deal of poker knowledge. They know how to play poker - that is, more so that the average NPLer. That's all I was saying. Nothing about putting on a red shirt and instantly turning into Phil Ivey.

On a more serious note;
I seen your face when you thought you missed out on making the State finals at the Ark, when we told you Glendas top 50 finish didn't help you make top 5 at the Kingy. You looked devastated to say the least.

And do you remember how you felt when the guys on your table on the last Friday night at the Kingy when you needed to make points and were calling or raising you on purpose so you didn't make points???????

How did you feel? And how would you feel if it were a TD who had nothing to gain knocked you out????

That night I had my own friends gunning for my chips. They had all made states, so they didn't need anything. So, I guess you could say its the same as a TD - they didn't care, had nothing to gain/lose. Except a TD (or a bunch of them) wouldn't attack one solitary player. And if they did? Its their right to play poker however they choose. They want to play 48s? Go for it! Call your shove with 93o? Their choice, its their chips.

I guess you'd feel about the same as I did at Para Hills a few seasons back when a TD did exactly the same thing to me and 3 other guys on our table.

We were down to around 24 runners and I needed to make points along with a couple of other guys on our table. I had a good stack that I was protecting but when he came to our table he changed the whole game.

He opened with I'm gonna knock you all out of the comp and steal your chips and he did. He played and raised nearly every hand with crap that just kept hitting and thought it was so funny.

What's the difference between a TD acting like that and a regular NPLer? If it was a regular you'd think it was normal "npl d*nkeys." But when a TD joins a tourny and plays like that, suddenly its a crime?

Under different circumstances I may have made points had it been an NPL punter as I don't believe the same results would have occured.

How can you know that?

I did air my disappointment at the time as I felt is was unfair for a TD to join a tourney when the points were so critical. Had it been earlier in the season knowing me as I do, I probably would have still felt it was wrong.

Join? As in, they sat down midway through the tourny? Or were they playing from the beginning?

[maccatak11]

There is just as much chance of a once a season player, first timer or regular d0nk knocking you out and getting lucky as there is a TD, so get over it people.

Again, people like queen, and in this case Bob always bring up ONE or TWO particular situations where something has disadvantaged THEM as a reason to bag a whole concept.

Every time i have played against a TD, i have found them playing seriously and wanting to to well - because they dont wanna be seen to be playing like an idiot. I really can't imagine a TD, who probably doesnt get to play as much live poker as many punters acting like an idiot and playing recklessly.

I always cringe when people say "he went all in with nothing". Since when is poker about the best hand always winning, wouldnt we just deal the cards face up?

Its about fold equity people, and effective LAG play often means pushing with less than pemium hands. Sometimes you get get lucky or hit your draw - doesnt mean that that player is necessarily bad.

The few times i have played against TD's (against Todd Rivers in the riverland mainly), he has always played seriously, helping people out when needed, but leaving all main decisions to the TD in charge. Think about the bragging rights you might have if YOU knock out a TD?

TD's playing is a good thing. Challenge yourself, you might improve.

[Caleb]

you see, the argument behind this is - and I have just gotten off the phone from someone who totally agrees, that they don't care about what they play and that it has no significance to them because they can't win anything. so they can play as loose as they want, without worrying about any loss of prizes or points or who they knock out or who they chip up.

Again, how is this different than your average who rocks up for a quick game of cards? They push push push. Surely you've experienced these players. We have so many of them here in SA. A TD on average, even playing as loose as possible, will still play a better standard than most of these players.

it has no significance to them because they can't win anything.

So we can't win the trophy? Or the venue voucher? Even in my playing days, they were just bonuses. Getting a trophy or a free meal was nice, but the WIN was the most important thing. Just knowing that on that particular night you were the best.

My opinion has not changed since I became a contractor. If I play I'm there to win. I guarantee you'd prefer to play against someone like me than some A.P.L D-word who won't stamp-up and pushes all-in blind every hand looking to get a stack.

I know for a fact most of the TD's around here have the same attitude in NPL tournaments as I do. Most of us.

[Caleb]

Think about the bragging rights you might have if YOU knock out a TD?

Not only that, think about the bragging rights when you OUTPLAY a TD. There's nothing better. (Speaking from my playing days here)

[Bob B]

It was as bad as that dill on our table at the Kingy who said something like ........ "You don't need any skills to play NPL poker all you need is chips". How good was that when all he was doing was going ALLIN, ALLIN. If I want that sort of game I'll just hook up to any freeroll on the net and watch the play the first 2 or 3 rounds going allin with crap.

"You don't need any skill to play free poker." And how hilarious it was

And now you say that because they are a TD their "SKILL LEVEL IS VASTLY SUPERIOR AND HAVE TALENT TOO!!!!!!!!...........WOW is that possible"!!!
I'M SURE SOME OF YOUR FRIENDS WOULD LOVE TO HEAR THAT YOU THINK THEY ARE SOME WHAT INFERIOR PLAYERS TO A TD. Myself included assuming I'm a friend that is LOL.

I've said this before, Bob. I mentioned it to Garth - the majority, if not all TD's in NPL (at least the one's that I've dealt with) - have a great deal of poker knowledge. They know how to play poker - that is, more so that the average NPLer. That's all I was saying. Nothing about putting on a red shirt and instantly turning into Phil Ivey.


Some do really think the shirt has magical powers M8 LOL.

{quote="Bob B"]On a more serious note;
I seen your face when you thought you missed out on making the State finals at the Ark, when we told you Glendas top 50 finish didn't help you make top 5 at the Kingy. You looked devastated to say the least.

And do you remember how you felt when the guys on your table on the last Friday night at the Kingy when you needed to make points and were calling or raising you on purpose so you didn't make points???????

How did you feel? And how would you feel if it were a TD who had nothing to gain knocked you out????

That night I had my own friends gunning for my chips. They had all made states, so they didn't need anything. So, I guess you could say its the same as a TD - they didn't care, had nothing to gain/lose. Except a TD (or a bunch of them) wouldn't attack one solitary player. And if they did? Its their right to play poker however they choose. They want to play 48s? Go for it! Call your shove with 93o? Their choice, its their chips.


If the pack smells blood they attack M8 red coats or not you're fair game.

I guess you'd feel about the same as I did at Para Hills a few seasons back when a TD did exactly the same thing to me and 3 other guys on our table.

We were down to around 24 runners and I needed to make points along with a couple of other guys on our table. I had a good stack that I was protecting but when he came to our table he changed the whole game.

He opened with I'm gonna knock you all out of the comp and steal your chips and he did. He played and raised nearly every hand with crap that just kept hitting and thought it was so funny.

What's the difference between a TD acting like that and a regular NPLer? If it was a regular you'd think it was normal "npl d*nkeys." But when a TD joins a tourny and plays like that, suddenly its a crime?


Not a crime M8, just a lack of thought for those who were trying to qualify. Did the TD in question learn anything due to his antics? NO! I still see him as I did that night.

Under different circumstances I may have made points had it been an NPL punter as I don't believe the same results would have occured.

How can you know that?


I did say "may have made points. I just couldn't see anyone wanting to make points or playing that way unless they didn't give a shit or was as you say an ass.

I did air my disappointment at the time as I felt is was unfair for a TD to join a tourney when the points were so critical. Had it been earlier in the season knowing me as I do, I probably would have still felt it was wrong.

Join? As in, they sat down midway through the tourny? Or were they playing from the beginning?[/quote]

Join, as in entering an NPL points competition with no thoughts as to how his actions may effect the results of registered players and their chances of making the state finals.

Being the last game probably magnified it some what but it did effect the end results.

The numbers were down to where a single TD was able to run the tourney and he joined in b4 the first break and as a TD's assisistant he wasn't required.

During the game and at the first break a number of people queeried him being able to play as this wasn't the norm at the time. They were told it's free poker and he can't make points so what's the big deal.

Nobody took into account that it may effect there finishing position until later in the night. After the last break we thought he would just drop out seeing it was the last night of the season.

That never happened and he proceeded to continue going ALLIN or making huge bets on the pretence of chipping someone up instead of just pulling out as there wasn't any prize foe him other than bragging rights.

Hey, it happened and it was some time ago now. I used it as an example that I was personally involved with rather than a story I had heard.

Now back to the present where it looks like we are in for some changes and different agenda for the new season. I say bring it on and if I'm lucky enough to sit at another Garth, Nathan table so be it as I did learn a few things from that adventure at the time.

Both guys have a small tell when they are good and I'm hoping they still have the same tells for when we meet again, LOL.

And MACCA, I just read your post and I used the above passages of play purely as an example. It did happen, it may have happened if it were a regular registered player and then I would have been talking about it on another post which you may have already started, regarding non thinking players, LOL

[queen9]

firstly, let me go back a few posts .. to where you ask about an example I used in reference to 2 td's drawing out their significant others - I used this example to show that I didn't consider what they did was ethical and that it put their honesty in doubt. If people are going to deliberatly be deceptive, then I don't want to play with them .. td or not....

and as far as a new player, or one who has to leave early and is pushing all in, all in, to go home, I never said I like that either. The topic is about TD's playing and that is what I don't like.

THe reason people come and tell me or ask me is because they think I know. I used to play in 3 different regions and 6-7 games a week. some of them don't have internet access and even now, some players are telling me that the forum is not 'user friendly' - so I am helping them with it.

the other thing is that td's have actually sent players over to ask me about finals games, qualifying, venues, - even rules ... and so on, as they don't always have the answers.

admittedly, TD's today are more informed than they were 12 months ago, but it brings us right back to a communication issue. and I think that maybe they hear us talk so much about wanting to qualify for this or that, that caused one td - who told me they have never even been on the npl website - to to looking .... and he did find it interesting ....

at the end of the day, we are all entitled to our own opinion, and that is what I am voicing ... I don't like it and never will ... but as I said ... come play on a level playing field, where I will welcome you with open arms ... I'll even shout you a beer... lol ....