General Questions

[queen9]

question for you Garth .. in your absence tonight, the goal posts were once again moved, this time mid way through the game.

My husband went to the Tigers Clubhouse to play in the 'buy in' game. He read the sheet that explained the blinds and the chip ups and the conditions of the game. the blinds went from 300, 600, to 400, 800 to 500, 1000, then 1000, 2000 and so on. but Dave announced to the tables, that due to the time factor, blinds were to go up from 300, 600 to - 1000, 2000. there was no 400, 800 blind period at all nor was there any 500, 1000.

can you tell me how this can be? this is not a free roll tournament, this is a buy in tournament, with all the rules and conditions clearly set out for all the players to see right from the start of the game. then the rules are changed, mid way through the game, a bit late for a player to say they are not happy with that and would rather not play ... but not too late for a player to say they will never play an npl buy in tournament again.

I know that we only spoke about communication a couple of times - but hey, doesn't this exactly prove the point? and to the detriment of the game, the npl and the venue. If you want positive comments, give me something positive to comment about. I thought this might be it as the game itself was great, but it was tarnished by the lack of consideration given to the players who had paid money to play.

to use one of your phrases, this is disgraceful. .... queen9

[Garth Kay]

hey Garth, I think I hit a wrong button, sorry I am new to this.

just a quick one though, the state leaderboard is different from the home page to the entire leaderboard, the points, the placings, why is that?

this was intended for 'ask garth' but ended up here, so if someone knows how to move it, or if garth can answer it here, please let me know

thanks heaps ... queen 9

I will send an email to Steve to try and figure out what the problem is, I would say that the leaderboard displayed on the home page has not taken DD into consideration.

This will be rectified.

[Garth Kay]

My husband went to the Tigers Clubhouse to play in the 'buy in' game. He read the sheet that explained the blinds and the chip ups and the conditions of the game. the blinds went from 300, 600, to 400, 800 to 500, 1000, then 1000, 2000 and so on. but Dave announced to the tables, that due to the time factor, blinds were to go up from 300, 600 to - 1000, 2000. there was no 400, 800 blind period at all nor was there any 500, 1000.

can you tell me how this can be? this is not a free roll tournament, this is a buy in tournament, with all the rules and conditions clearly set out for all the players to see right from the start of the game. then the rules are changed, mid way through the game, a bit late for a player to say they are not happy with that and would rather not play ... but not too late for a player to say they will never play an npl buy in tournament again.

I know that we only spoke about communication a couple of times - but hey, doesn't this exactly prove the point? and to the detriment of the game, the npl and the venue. If you want positive comments, give me something positive to comment about. I thought this might be it as the game itself was great, but it was tarnished by the lack of consideration given to the players who had paid money to play.

to use one of your phrases, this is disgraceful. .... queen9

I spoke to David tonight and discussed many things after the tournament, last week the tournament ran till midnight and that was the biggest concern from players, and something I decided to remedy.

Obviously the information sheets given out were from last week, again my responsibility and my fault completely.

The general feedback was extremely positive and I have already received two emails glowingly endorsing this product and am yet to receive anything negative from players.

Again this is a breakdown in communication but we shouldn't have jumped from 300/600 to 500/1000. This I will discuss with Dave.

But from the notes I have seen on the event there was almost 320,000 of chips in play for a field of 60 odd.

So a cash buy in event isn't a positive move forward for the competition?

What is everybody's thoughts on this concept for Vic and SA?

[queen9]

garth, I know it is late, but please read again ... the blinds jumped from 300, 600 to 1000, 2000 - there was no 400, 800 OR 500, 1000.

and the format is good, we never doubted that, but to change the rules mid way through the game, changes the whole balance of things. while Janos had enough to post 6 blinds, this was only half that with the higher blinds. so his whole game plan that he had played throughout the night just got wasted and so did his money.

and what is this new rule I heard about tonight, if your chip up is wrong, then basically, it is stiff shit ... which brings me to a great point ... rule 2, as displayed on your own npl website, clearly states that players are encouraged to watch the chip up, so why is it that we are screamed and yelled at the leave the poker room/area, when it is time to do this.

initially, we were told if we had our chip stack verified, then we could dispute the chip up and we would get what we were missing, now we are not only stopped from counting the chips, but now we are told 'stiff shit'???

now I know we are allowed to stay and watch, I will be doing just that, then players cannot be considered cheats or liars, mistakes will be quickly picked up and insinuations will be totally uncalled for.

rules for the bad beat table: you are responsible for the chips, the cards and dealer button and for making sure they are all there, cos if they're not, you will not get back in to the main tourney, but stop counting and get out of the poker room? I wish I knew how to put a 'tone' into this, although it is probably better without cos I don't think you would like it.

so what happened to the rules - don't they mean anything?

and I hope it is obvious by the time, that my emails and phone have been running red hot .... in fact, I am on the phone to a fellow player right now .... who is telling me how final table was played on 2 tables, til they got down to 8, then it was self dealt til one went out and all this they were told, - because the cash game needed the table as it was more important.... so in the free roll, where points for state and regional and venue leaderboards can be changed in an instant due to double december, the game took a back seat to a cash game, and chips that should have been available to 9 players, were only available to half that, that changed the game too...

what is going on Garth .. please ... give me something positive to talk or write about, I need some sleep, still not well and dealing with all this ... you will have some vics online tomorrow ... that's for sure. ... Q9

[queen9]

garth - you wrote ::: Again this is a breakdown in communication but we shouldn't have jumped from 300/600 to 500/1000. This I will discuss with Dave.
But from the notes I have seen on the event there was almost 320,000 of chips in play for a field of 60 odd.
So a cash buy in event isn't a positive move forward for the competition?
What is everybody's thoughts on this concept for Vic and SA?
_________________________________________________________
I am not doubting for one moment that it is a positive more forward, again, do not doubt my intentions, but I fail to see what the chip count has to do with it .. it only suggests that the start stack was complimented by drink cards, which strategically used, could have been worth double chips. but a great idea has now been marred - already - in only its 2nd effort, by changes brought about to the rules, without warning. even if it was mentioned at the start of the game, it would have made a difference.

and be mindful too, that while the cash tourney were playing 300, 600 blinds, the other 70 odd, in the free roll, were only playing 100, 200.

so it doesn't matter what state you are in, we will all agree, rules are rules, we can't break them, neither should you. .... Q9

[Brett Kay]

Rosemary,

I think when Garth mentioned the chips in play is to gauge how long a tournament is going to be running for.

Simple principles of chip stack / (BB+SB) or M Theory will tell you, that if there is a m greater than 30, then the game will proceed at a slower rate than a game which has an m value less than 10. So in the first case, M greater than 30 means people will take less chances and therefore the game will plod it. M less than 10 is more of a push or fold kind of situation.

So 320K in chips at 500/1000 gives an overall field M of 213. Which if there are 10 players left the game will plod out. at 1000/2000 gives an m of 106 which if there are 10 players left means that there will be a few quick knockouts before the game slows up again.

As Garth previously stated, last weeks game finished after 12am. Correct me if i am wrong. But if games start going over the allotted 3 - 3.5 hours, then the value of pay for staff will go down, and the idea might be nixed because no one will want to work it.

So as a step forward there will always be kinks to iron out, and obviously getting the blind timings right on a tournament with extra chips being added into it at such a quantity it will always be hard to control. Considering that the NPL format has always been around a turbo to super turbo pace. Starting with a 2k start plus 2k from the cards at 25/50 means everyone has heaps of room to play. If we keep in a few later blind levels, then that means the starting levels will be pushed forward and players will be starting from the 50/100 or even 100/200 levels. But there will still be a 400/800 and 500/1000 levels.

This will then create the impression that players are not being allowed to play proper poker, and we start the same debate about start stacks and blinds. Whether we start with 1500, 3k or 30k at blind levels of 25/50, 50/100 or 500/1000 Everything is relative.

[queen9]

thanks Brett, it makes it a little clearer, but the game started earlier tonight to compensate for the later finish last week, and it is not a player's concern what the td's rate of pay is. they pay money to play a game which was stated would start with X and be more relaxed in its blinds. we knew from the onset that this would produce a longer game that normal freeroll and I am sure past experiences would have suggested the same thing to you guys ... but you ran with it.

we play a home game with 16 players and cannot get that done under 3 hours, so what hope have you got with 60+ players? And I know there are always bugs to be ironed out, but this is a huge one.

In fact, last sunday night, we had a tourney with 14 players, we started at 7 pm and put a curfew of 10/30 on the game. I gave them a 30 minute warning at 10 and a 15 minute warning at 10.15. the game was over moments later. Over 3 hours for 14 players .... all the blinds!!!

It's like taking me to Luna Park and telling me that I can go on all the rides, twice if I want, but I only have half an hour to do it all.

I have to get some sleep ... stop emailing and phoning me ... get onto the forum ... taking my sick ass back to bed .... g'nite .... Q9

[AllInNoLook]

Garth,

While you're looking into what happened in the cash game at Tigers tonight (Wed 3rd Dec), maybe you should, or actually PLEASE look into what happened in the Freeroll too.

I was short chipped when i had $2000 in chips at the start of the break only to return to $1500 after the colour up was done and told by the TD that the new rule is, quote : "stiff ****." (Not rudely..but still)
I even had the others at the table to vouch for my stack (and what was said) and even one of the other TD's witnessed the proceedings and saw me and another person winning our respective pots - his $700, mine $2000. The buck got passed from one TD to the other - can you please let me know why the new rule about missing chips when you come back from a break is now "supposedly stiff ****"? Some players have missed out so many times that they now write it down on a piece of paper, others put it into their phone, but most of us check each others chips cos we were told we have to get them verified.
Now....that is no good, is that right?

Another matter I'd like to bring to your attention (And I say this on behalf of everyone who played in the top 16 of the freeroll there tonight) is, it was played from the bubble of 16, right down till we got to the final 9 STILL on 2 tables, then when we got to 8 we relocated to a round table with ourselves dealing the first hand for each other till the first person was knocked out leaving 7 so the player dealt til we lost another one - all because the cash game needed the bigger table. I or anyone could have had those chips from the 9th player going out and it could have changed the outcome of the game. Now we will never know.

( When it got down to the 'final' nine tonight..there was only one final table which was being used by the Buy-In Game as it was, quote : "More important". We played the final 9 on 2 seperate tables hand for hand till we got to 8...Which is unheard of for all of us playing and this, to me, affected all the chips in play and possibly the overall outcome of the freeroll event as I and a certainly a couple of others had good hands of which if we were all on one table might have become ours.....on the other hand we might have got different cards BUT... you see my point ?!?!?! )

I am quite upset over certain things that happened tonight and then to make things worse my 7th place DD points were given to someone else -I would also like to tell you (and i know it's certainly not ur fault, but you are the only one with authority to rectify it i think) how a 'Jason Smith' got MY final table points when my name is Jason Mackie and I was there next to the TD spelling out my first and last name on his sheet to him after being eliminated in 7th place in the freeroll at the Tigers Club tonight. I don't see how they could have possibly got it mixed up when I'm certain no-one with the surname Smith even made the final table. That's 112 or so points I would never had seen if i had not checked the results again later when I got home that night. I would like this looked into asap and would also like my points back.

In general, ALOT on " no-no's " happened tonight...

Is that all going to be the usual practice now or am I sounding stupid...?

I know its a Freeroll but there is certainly an etiquette and morals that have to be adhered to in every game....

Sorry to unload this on you but I thought I should tell you and certainly needed to vent my feelings.

Jase.

[AllInNoLook]

Garth,

I know for the FTT event...it is 4 tokens to enter.

Just wondering what happens with the other 15 or so tokens on top of those I have accumulated this season ??

Are they useless or can they be used to enter other events ???

[Scotty]

Pretty sure there are more events in the pipeline for 2009 that will utilize the FTTs.