Double December Points???

[Origami]

True, though drivers don't get an SMS just before Bathurst to tell them that

so how many weeks before the PGCC mega game were we notified of its extistence, intentions and subsequent rammification and potentional increase in $$$'s capacity???

[ opps sorry too many muti-syabled words in one post and no spelling chequer ..

[queen9]

I understand perfectly what benne, bob etc are saying now, and I think I agree. Cos if you get to discard your bad games, and only draw on your top or best 15 scores, you are only showing the better games not ALL your games. so if you are playing 100 games, the other 85 won't count.

the issue with changing this is that when I finished on top the first time (season 3, 2007), I wanted to stop playing after week 4 as I new that any more games would hinder my score. at that time, it was not designated that your best 15 only would count or that you in fact had to PLAY 15 to qualify for the state leader board. so I asked the questions and waited for the outcome, then continued to play as I knew my average could only get better, not go down.

so perhaps you are right with the state leaderboard winner, however, I did win it twice, under the criteria as set out by NPL, and there is only one other multiple winner, Alf Morley from Bendigo, but many other current and past winners have stayed in the top 10 and many other top 10 finishers have remained in the top 20-50 on a regular basis. this is playing in line with the NPL criteria.

Now, in saying all that, perhaps we should all be given the chance to play as many games as we want (with a minimum of course) and to have our entire season averaged out so that we have a true average. the only problem with that is that if you happen to have an average of around 75 by week 4 (that average will pretty much win it for you) then you (and perhaps your friends) will stop playing and find something else to do on your usual poker night. so then the venue misses out.

but if there was a venue prize worth winning, it would keep you playing. If there was a regional prize worth winning, it would keep you playing and perhaps entice you to other venues in your regions and if it was more selective to get into state finals, you would keep playing to protect your position.

In saying all this, my mind is running away with ideas. like having a venue leader final, even for first and second at a venue - say 100 venues, = 200 players ... what a great tourney that would make ... a regional leader final, say top 5, with 13 regions, that is only 65 players.

And I love the idea of the state's top 10 competing against the top 10 from all states, this is a cool idea. after all, garth did say this was a NATIONAL competition.

but all this creates another problem. It has been said that the available prize money should be made available to more players and this reduces the numbers. But as Garth also said, most of the players who play either don't know what is on offer, or don't care.

and instead of double points, a seat at a casino tournament would have kept players coming back for the remainder of the season, even just a phase 2 seat at the aussie millions (for us vics), worth only $250, it would have kept us playing right up to the end of the season, just to win it... and at a cost of just over $3000 in total combined for all regions, it may work out cheaper than all the headaches I am sure Garth has from all this.

It is so easy to come up with different ideas when you get all the players talking, and altough they may not be great, they are different. I hope Garth takes this with more than a grain of salt and takes it as constructive, cos that is the way it is meant.

Look out for more 'vics' in the forum, I am about to email about 30 of them to let them know about the forum and how to get here - some of us are not as quick as Benne or Bob ... lol ...

[Scotty]

It is so easy to come up with different ideas when you get all the players talking, and altough they may not be great, they are different. I hope Garth takes this with more than a grain of salt and takes it as constructive, cos that is the way it is meant.

That is one of the main reasons this forum was started. And in this sense, has been extremely successful; many ideas and proposals have been offered up by players (and staff), and out of this (in SA) we have seen changes made, and exciting poker opportunities opened. The two that spring to mind instantly are the teams event, held very early this year, and the Berri Deepstack event, a "2 day poker extravaganza". Both these ideas came from this forum, and both were fantastic to participate in.

State vs state NPL action? Vic vs SA? I don't know anyone who wouldn't want to be a part of something like that

[Garth Kay]

but if there was a venue prize worth winning, it would keep you playing. If there was a regional prize worth winning, it would keep you playing and perhaps entice you to other venues in your regions and if it was more selective to get into state finals, you would keep playing to protect your position.

No venue or regional leaderboard prize could ever equate to $5,000 or even the $1,000 we offer. So I am not sure whether those players protecting their average would ever sacrifice that to continue playing to win a prize of a lesser value.

In saying all this, my mind is running away with ideas. like having a venue leader final, even for first and second at a venue - say 100 venues, = 200 players ... what a great tourney that would make ... a regional leader final, say top 5, with 13 regions, that is only 65 players.

We have offered a $2,000 bonus at the Maine Event for all venue winners. The top ten form each regional leaderbaord will represent their region in a $2,000 teams event.

And I love the idea of the state's top 10 competing against the top 10 from all states, this is a cool idea. after all, garth did say this was a NATIONAL competition.

We may see something introduced as early as mid next year. There is no point calling us the National Poker League if we do not offer a truly National competition. Again, airfares and accomodation, which states hosts etc etc... become problematic. But this is something I definitely want to get up and running. As far as I am concerned we need it and the players (especially the mega gamers) want it.

and instead of double points, a seat at a casino tournament would have kept players coming back for the remainder of the season, even just a phase 2 seat at the aussie millions (for us vics), worth only $250, it would have kept us playing right up to the end of the season, just to win it... and at a cost of just over $3000 in total combined for all regions, it may work out cheaper than all the headaches I am sure Garth has from all this.

Running a whole month of this promotion was received negatively by me. It was designed by Carlos and although I like the idea I think one week a season would be fine, possibly two. But Double points absolutely ruin the stats page I am creating for player profiles on the website.

We didn't want to do anything Casino related for the remainder of this season, the budget was already used up and we were dry, so not much funds could be allocated for this.

Casino tournaments are the way to go, I also like Brock's ideas of offering a shopping spree to a lucky player or holding a tournament for westfield or travel vouchers. Something other than casino entries.

It is so easy to come up with different ideas when you get all the players talking, and altough they may not be great, they are different. I hope Garth takes this with more than a grain of salt and takes it as constructive, cos that is the way it is meant.

Plenty of different ideas are floated all the time, and everything is constructive, but players have a macro view of the business, and when all is said and done, NPL is a business and their other interests to protect and sometimes our hands are tied on certain issues. \

Thanks Rosemary - best post yet -

[queen9]

hey Scott ... that makes at least 2 of us ... lol ....

[queen9]

hi garth, I was not suggesting $5,000 or even $1000 for a regional or venue prize, but if I was offered $250, I would work towards protecting my place, if I was offered a phase 2 seat, I would work towards protecting my place, if it meant that finishing 1st or 2nd would be the only way left for me to qualify for a state final, I would work towards protecting my place.

and the smaller venues would retain their players as it is easier to qualify there, whereas now, it is no good me going to play at Norlane, I need to get back into the top 50, so I need the bigger venues, so the smaller venue and my favourite, misses out. there also goes the social and fun side of my poker.

and as far as this teams event goes on the 20th, I have enough ftt to enter, but I can't cos I can't play in the first event. why is it that to play in the teams event, I have to play the earlier one first? and with that, in the teams event for this day, and also for the format for next year, do we partner up with someone else who qualified, not a partner of our choosing?

When you speak about a National competition, we are only talking about the top 10 from each state, or even perhaps the top 2 - 5 ... and with airfares as cheaps as they are now, it appears to be a great project to work on. even state against state .. I have already had Scott show interest - s.a. v vic ... lol ... I can't wait ... perhaps we will invite them over for a home game ... lol ...

[Garth Kay]

hi garth, I was not suggesting $5,000 or even $1000 for a regional or venue prize, but if I was offered $250, I would work towards protecting my place, if I was offered a phase 2 seat, I would work towards protecting my place, if it meant that finishing 1st or 2nd would be the only way left for me to qualify for a state final, I would work towards protecting my place.

Even a $100 prize at a venue level would cost us $10,000 a season in Vic alone.
The smaller the qualification does prove problematic as it removes another three players who qualify and instead of a possible top 15 - 20 contesting a spot in the Main Event we only now have 5 or possible ten. Doesn't really promote continued support of your venue. It is something we can look at.

and as far as this teams event goes on the 20th, I have enough ftt to enter, but I can't cos I can't play in the first event. why is it that to play in the teams event, I have to play the earlier one first? and with that, in the teams event for this day, and also for the format for next year, do we partner up with someone else who qualified, not a partner of our choosing?

It is a two tournament event. I would prefer all players register in the morning and that we do not have to run another rego period.

You have to partner up with another player who is playing in this event. I see no dramas with this as most players will come down to this event with a friend or three.

When you speak about a National competition, we are only talking about the top 10 from each state, or even perhaps the top 2 - 5 ... and with airfares as cheaps as they are now, it appears to be a great project to work on. even state against state ..

Ten from four different states each season still adds up, and we cannot sacrifice funds from other promotions as it is. Something is in the pipeline for this one but as mentioned it will take at least 6 months to finalise.

[queen9]

and not to sound calous, but if the majority of players don't care about the promotions, or the prizes on offer, then paying out the prizemoney to the minority is not an issue. why have a field of 1000 (as garth stated in a previous post would be a great idea) when that would include almost anyone who wanted to play - that knew about it and cared about it.

In a final, your top players should be given the chance to compete against each other - some venues take players as low as 9th or 10th to make their top players as there are so many people from that venue in the top 50 state leaderboard. a smaller final, would make people play better poker, it would be harder to qualify and mean more to the players concerned.

to get the players interested in their venues and to entice them to play more than the average once a week player (who represents 70% of Victorian players), give them purpose ... advertise the venue leader from last season, or the regional leader, or the state leader ...

when a tattslotto agency sells a division 1 winning ticket, they plaster it all over the shop ... NPL should be marketing their business the same way ... and then perhaps the numbers would come to try to take out the winner - just like they go to a luckier shop to buy their ticket. and given that most regional or state winners play at more than one venue, it would have been a great chance to promote some venues without any huge cost.

[Bob B]

thanks for the feedback everyone, and yes I am from Victoria. just to let you know, as Garth has now told everyone, my name is Rosemary and I have won the title of State Leaderboard winner twice here in Victoria.

the first time I did it, I had a massive season, 3 wins, a couple of 3rds and hit the top in week 3 and stayed there, finishing with an average of over 80 (season 3, 2007) I played 43 games only and scored points in 19 of those games. In season 2, 2008, I played 50 games and had to fight my way to stay up there with my best finishes being thirds, but with points of 106.3 for one third place.

my averages, based on my top 15 games have been 80.69 and 78.28, showing consistency, however, last season I played only 26 games, and still finished in the top 50, qualifying for the state final, pointing in only 10 of those games. this must show that the bigger venues helped me get there, admittedly, but when I defeated 133 players and 145 another night, that must say something about my ability.


I am an avid supporter of the state leaderboard - Alf Morely won back to back titles, under the old scoring system, this way is fairer, but probably still not ideal. my main concern is that the bigger venues are putting the smaller ones out of business and that lack of communication and things like double december, do not help this situation. I agree that people will give up the chase as their efforts and finances at this time of the year will take 2nd place to family issues, whereas the chance to win even a phase 2 seat for the aussie millions would have had me there every night.

The double december will put a false leaderboard winner up there and totally destroy my record of the highest average and has now even pushed me out of the top 100, which is 68 places worse than my worst finish since I started 2 years ago. ... and it will only get worse from here.

take care ... rosemary

I know David or someone else will say I should have condence your post down more than I have to maybe a couple of paragraphs. I really feel your post deserved to be shown in full so I have only removed a couple of paragraphs.

Playing 43 and 50 games in the season and making those sort of percentages to gain first place in the state is awsome and you should be very proud of yourself Rosemary.

That's the sort of thing that Big Pete, myself and benny the cunt were refering too. A couple of seasons back a friend of mine named Enzo ran the gauntlet and play some 120 plus games to gain top spot.

It took a lot of running around from venue to venue and a considerable amount of cash to gain the #1 spot especially when you consider he was a tea totaller and only drank coke. But that was his goal and it came down to the very last late night game to seal top spot.

old-man daryl was in second spot and after they played at one of the 7.30 start games they had had enough. They asked if one or the other were going to the late game and they agreed to give it a miss. Much to their surprise and everyone elses they both turned up at the late game and it was on.

I play a small venue of around 30 max and agree with you on how the smaller venues may miss out due to bigger venues offering bigger incentives plus the December DP's. Let's hope that doesn't happen and we the regulars keep supporting them as best we can.

I hope your health is on the mend, regards BOB

[Garth Kay]

Yes Rosemary you are right, on everything.

There are plenty of things we could/should be doing and yes we do lack in marketing and communication. There are plenty of different things we could try or implement, no doubt about it. But something that will not happen is a competition based around those who class themselves as the best or a complete competition based around thos who play 4+ times a week.

I am not going to argue or agree to your points on this one, we have differing views on everything it seems and it does seem pointless to discuss every individual idea on this forum. I suggest you create another thread and ask for ideas, I am more than willing to discuss any ideas anybody comes up with.

Continue to post and offer advice but understand that because we do not utilise your ideas that noone is exactly wrong, there is a bigger picture to look at rather than what is the absolute best for the players, and in particular what an individual wants.

As to what the cost of marketing and advertising is, it's much larger than generally most people are aware.