When are odds not enough?

[bennymacca]

i know what u are saying nevah, but i tihnk you have completely misread what i was saying. i am talking purely about odds of calling with relation to stack size.

For the following reasons:
At best you have a pair of 10's.. not the most impressive pair ever.

i know this, i knew my pair of 10s weren't good

You went up against someone that is in your own words "a tight-passive player". Unless she is for once breaking with tradition, you were behind from the start.

did u actually read my post? i KNEW i was behind and that i needed to spike one of my outs to win

The only way out really was a runner, runner... What are the chances that that happens?

i didn't need runner runner, a 10 or a J would have done it for me, as well as a few runner runner possibilities

I realise it does, but honestly, is it worth throwing in most of your chipstack to chase?

this i agree with, i was probably risking too much of my stack. if i had 30K at this point in time, then a call was the right move to make i think, but i should have folded given that i only had 11K at the time

There are always more deals to come around, why throw away effort after foolishness by continuing to bet?
However, the one and only reason I would say bet is because this is a knock out type of tournament, I guess the only way to knock others out is by betting against them when they do go all in, in the hopes that they are bluffing or you do get lucky and knock them out.

Hope my thoughts make sense..

please go back and read what i had written, i called on the flop, and then called a small all in bet that was 1/6 of the pot, i didn't bet at all

[bennymacca]

Did you consider hands such as AT, A9, AJ, KQ, JJ, QT, KT or even 78 (late position).

this is a valid point, my calculations don't take this into consideration.

[rcon]

No, I don't mean in situations like that. Say you have amazing odds to call on the turn, or river, but you know... you just know that you're behind, and you have a very small chance of winning the hand (say a one outer). There are times when calculations about pot odds can clog your brain and override the fact that really, you should be folding.

Of course you wouldn't put a chip more into a pot where you knew you had zero chance of winning. Unless you smelt a bluff of course. But we're talking post flop, pre-turn aren't we?

[bennymacca]

aaron odds for a 1 outer on the turn or river is 4.3%, or odds of 23:1.

when is this situation ever going to happen? 23:1 odds are u betting 925 of your 1000 stack, and then someone going over the top for the extra 75 and u not calling.

not ever gonna have to think about odds like that

[Nevah play JJ]

i know what u are saying nevah, but i tihnk you have completely misread what i was saying. i am talking purely about odds of calling with relation to stack size.

I have a suspicion I didn't follow what you said entirely either.
But I also wanted to put my thoughts into why I said "NO" so that it didn't look like I just said no for the sake of it.

But thanks for answering my post.

[BigPete33]

TJ off in UTG is pretty marginal, and I'm sure you know that.

Honi has CLEARLY hit an A.

What did you think you were drawing to? Very possible she had some of your outs.

Runner runner is not a draw therefore ignore that completely. When doing the maths it only relates to your next card.

If your objective was to go deep I would say a loose play like that is counter productive.

I would have to go with 'bad call' (and I mean preflop), but I've certainly seen worse.

[bennymacca]

I have a suspicion I didn't follow what you said entirely either.
But I also wanted to put my thoughts into why I said "NO" so that it didn't look like I just said no for the sake of it.

i completely agree with what you are saying, although your reasons are different to the situation i described. but its all good

TJ off in UTG is pretty marginal, and I'm sure you know that.

Honi has CLEARLY hit an A.

What did you think you were drawing to? Very possible she had some of your outs.

Runner runner is not a draw therefore ignore that completely. When doing the maths it only relates to your next card.

If your objective was to go deep I would say a loose play like that is counter productive.

I would have to go with 'bad call' (and I mean preflop), but I've certainly seen worse.

when i called, i knew i was drawing to another 10 or J, i didn't really take runner runner into consideration. what i didn't take into account was that it was highly likely that one or both of my drawing cards may have been taken by the other players

and yes, 10J is a very loose call from UTG with those blind levels, this was my main mistake i think.

[AceLosesKing]

Hmm, ok nobody really understood what I was saying. Basically, what I was trying to say is that some players put too much thought into pot odds and not what their opponent is holding.

As has been stated earlier, benny the cunt, you really should've folded JT from UTG, and you could've avoided this whole incident

[Shannon]

Firstly, you can count Runner Runner as 1 out, from the flop.

So, you had 7 outs of the flop for the turn. For another 2k (because we - notice I said we benny the cunt - played JTo UTG ) to call an all-in, the odds were there to call, yes.

Everyone knows that Honi hit the A. Lets say that the turn was a spade, any spade, and our outs for the river have increased!

Basically you had 7 outs on the turn and then a minimum of 5 on the river. I would call that off the flop, knowing I was behind.

Not a bad call at all for the odds, knew you were behind, it is pub poker, basically you had 7 outs once and at least 5 outs on the river, not too sure how you didn't win the hand

And, if I am in the pot and there has been large betting throughout and then a very small bet on the river I am suspiscious of 1 thing - he has the nuts and wants a massive re-raise to the poxy little bet BUT I will always make the call when I know I am beat if it is small enough to not hurt my stack, to see his cards and gain information.

You might lose a battle here and there, but if you can set plays up during the night you should win the war.

- and yes, J10o is a loose call UTG, but when everyone else is playing tight, then getting a little loose is sometimes the best play as well.

[BigPete33]

Encouraging chasing of runner runner is just plain evil Shannon

I agree with AK about too much stock being put into pot odds sometimes (at this level). It's also a little harder when a lot of peoples starting range is 'any two cards'