I was kicked out of pub poker game!

[warboat]

You cannot fold when it's all-in!
There is no rule defining forward motion with cards where there is no line on the layout. If the player is folding he ALLOWS the dealer to take his cards and muck it. The hand is not mucked until it touches the muck and is killed. If the player is not folding, he can take it back, he can table it, he can stay live in the hand. Once it is tabled, the dealer could take it and muck it, but the hand is not killed and the player is still live. Forward motion means nothing, it is just allowing the dealer to muck the hand.

[warboat]

FYI - you are not suspended in our systems as at 1.30pm today.
Just had a look, so your statment that you were banned was not factual.

I wouldnt mind if you addressed some of the other items I addressed in my long winded response to you.

I don't know which specifics you are after?
also, Ernie publicly stated that I am not welcome to any events he hosts and that I will be kicked out if I enter the venue. That seems like a ban to me. Are you going to overule that?

[Bacon]

You cannot fold when it's all-in!
There is no rule defining forward motion with cards where there is no line on the layout. If the player is folding he ALLOWS the dealer to take his cards and muck it. The hand is not mucked until it touches the muck and is killed. If the player is not folding, he can take it back, he can table it, he can stay live in the hand. Once it is tabled, the dealer could take it and muck it, but the hand is not killed and the player is still live. Forward motion means nothing, it is just allowing the dealer to muck the hand.

ii.) DEAD HANDS
1. Your hand is declared dead if:
(a) You fold or announce that you are folding when facing a bet or a raise.
(b) You throw your hand away in a forward motion causing another player to act behind you (even if not facing a bet).

Seems straight forward to me.

[rcon]

I think jmack's . key is broken.

[warboat]

ii.) DEAD HANDS
1. Your hand is declared dead if:
(a) You fold or announce that you are folding when facing a bet or a raise.
(b) You throw your hand away in a forward motion causing another player to act behind you (even if not facing a bet).

Seems straight forward to me.

If your forward motion does not cause any action behind you, and in this case there is no further action, then forward motion bears no meaning.
It is not as straight forward as it seems.

[Garth Kay]

FYI - you are not suspended in our systems as at 1.30pm today.
Just had a look, so your statment that you were banned was not factual.

I wouldnt mind if you addressed some of the other items I addressed in my long winded response to you.

I don't know which specifics you are after?
also, Ernie publicly stated that I am not welcome to any events he hosts and that I will be kicked out if I enter the venue. That seems like a ban to me. Are you going to overule that?

I would strongly recommend you ceasing playing at any of Ernie's events, in fact I would say you're very much not welcome at any of his events and we will support that suspension.

You are very welcome to attend any and all other APL, 888PL or Pub Poker events. Well you were until I was sent this little gem you posted on facebook.

Aun Lim: OMG! you have to read this thread!. Garth Kay the general manager of FULL HOUSE group has just shown his ignorance of tournament rules by saying that you can fold and forfeit main pot to the smallstack all-in when there is no more action! JUST WOW!

Can I ask what makes you the expert in this area Aun? How many events have you ran or tournaments have you directed? How many rulings have you had to make in your lifetime?

I have given you more of my time than I would most others, I felt you had an issue that required further attention but I can see that there will be no adequate resolution fo you, and it frustrates the hell out of me that you werent event affected by th outcome.

We have spoken to the final three players, they have no issues and I now find this particular situation dealt with, however please feel to continue discussing tournament rulings and operations.

[warboat]

Can I ask what makes you the expert in this area Aun? How many events have you ran or tournaments have you directed? How many rulings have you had to make in your lifetime?

I have to ask why my credentials need to be qualified to argue the point?
That is the problem at hand here. People of authority are simply using their status to say what goes.
It kinda like a cop saying he is a cop and he can do whatever he wants because if you dare question him, you are at his mercy.

[bennymacca]

If your forward motion does not cause any action behind you, and in this case there is no further action, then forward motion bears no meaning.
It is not as straight forward as it seems.

I would love to know where you conjured this up from. Forward motion of any kind has always been a muck where i have played, when there is no line. This prevents angle shooting by people "pretenting" to fold and then bringing their carrds back when they get the required reaction etc.


It seems like you are the one with a fundamental misunderstanding.

[Garth Kay]

I have to ask why my credentials need to be qualified to argue the point?
That is the problem at hand here. People of authority are simply using their status to say what goes.
It kinda like a cop saying he is a cop and he can do whatever he wants because if you dare question him, you are at his mercy.

Becuase you called mine into question - you declared me ignorant in a public forum so I will quite gladly defend my position or concede to greater experience and knowledge, if it is proven to be so.

I still dont get what your issue is though; I agree with your thoughts based on the situation you described, the situation Ernie described is completely different and I have no issues supporting his ruling in that spot.

There are really only two issues I have here:

1.) The way you have handled this issue and raised your concerns.
2.) Your unwavering belief that an all in hand MUST be tabled and cannot be folded.

Also I take slight issue with the forward motion does not indicate a muck (it does the world round actually) and once released should always be deemed a muck - the inverse readily allows more angle shooting than any other stance listed in this forum.

[the dols]

It kinda like a cop saying he is a cop and he can do whatever he wants because if you dare question him, you are at his mercy.[/quote]

Have quite often heard the police say "tell your story walking" and when they didn't they hit the bin. Think this topic has gone on long enough now. So take the advice of the "police"