I was kicked out of pub poker game!

[JMACK007]

What about if someone walks away from the table is that not an instant fold? just asking.

Not in an allin situation...

[Caleb]

ok, what if it was SB that was shortstack and he is your horse. And as Blinds are posted, you as BB decide to walk away?
BTN folds, BB gets folded being not present?

Way to show your true colours.

I had you pegged the moment you posted, it took a while for that inner douche to really shine though.

[JMACK007]

ok, what if it was SB that was shortstack and he is your horse. And as Blinds are posted, you as BB decide to walk away?
BTN folds, BB gets folded being not present?

The things is that walking away achieves the same as folding out of turn but it is not considered a problem.

Yeah, that is horrible. Him being "your horse" shouldn't come into it at all...

[JMACK007]

BTW warboat, you are aware that you can get out of your seat in an allin situation....yeah?....

[666HARPS666]

What about if someone walks away from the table is that not an instant fold? just asking.

Not in an allin situation...

Jo a few seasons ago someone pushed all-in @ our S/F's, Garth warned him about walking away from table He came back on 2nd/3rd warning, If I had of called he would of been out 15 players left. All in or not you should not leave the table when you are in a hand.

[warboat]

I am not an angleshooter. But as a player you need to understand angles to prevent yourself from being a victim. I am most honest. I have even conceded a pot to a guy that tried to table his hand face up on the muck after he called. Dealer said he didn't tabled it, I told dealer to ship him the pot as he had the winning hand in my view.
I also had a situation with a player who didn't table his hand and just showed one card for the same straight as me and dealer mucked his hand and shipped me the pot. I took half the chips and handed it to him.
Anyone who has played with me long enough will know that I play hard but fair.

[JMACK007]

I am not an angleshooter. But as a player you need to understand angles to prevent yourself from being a victim. I am most honest. I have even conceded a pot to a guy that tried to table his hand face up on the muck after he called. Dealer said he didn't tabled it, I told dealer to ship him the pot as he had the winning hand in my view.
I also had a situation with a player who didn't table his hand and just showed one card for the same straight as me and dealer mucked his hand and shipped me the pot. I took half the chips and handed it to him.
Anyone who has played with me long enough will know that I play hard but fair.

warbird, you have shown yourself to be an argumentative and disloyal player. If you see something that you believe is wrong, take it up with management and move on...

[Garth Kay]

Wow this has certainly got out of hand:

1.) State Finals seats/entries are never transferrable.
2.) Do not get up from the table unless you are all in and have been called.
3.) We operate in a self dealt environment; benefit of the doubt must always be granted to our players.
4.) 888PL has its own rule book (although outdated when it comes to tournament ops) and does not use TDA rules (which are bland, scarce and vague)
4.) Too many conflicting accounts of what happened in this particular instance but to bring anyone's integrity into question is definitely the last thing that should occur.

When I spoke to Ernie he recounted the story as such:

UTG - short stack moves all in
BB - folds out of turn.
SB - folds

UTG wins pot he has right to
SB wins side pot
BB gets change

Also understand that this occurred at 2.30am Saturday morning and this discussion took place at State Champs the following Saturday around 5pm (after Ernie had started there at 9am).
He may have been a little worn out or hazy.

Based on his re telling of the story I have no issue with his interpretation of the ruling, accidents happen and players will fold out of turn or fold when they really shouldn't; how often do you see someone move all in for 2 BB's only for it to fold to the BB who promptly mucks. Poker is a game of information and if both players (SB and BB) were unaware of the amount of the all in then we as TD's cannot influence play in this matter.

If I am all in, and two players are competing for the side pot and on the river one of the live players moves all in, the second live player folds and then the all in bettor promptly folds, do I have any rights to the Main Pot or do we reclaim the hand because effectivelly he has called my All in? In this case if their is concern of collusion the TD can view the cards or have them tabled, but only if there is belief that collusion is highly probable.

In the end Ernie interpreted the rules and situation as he saw fit, and I might add that he was the TD at the time and really the only one in this thread who was present and paying attention. Whilst Caleb, myself or Nathan may make a different ruling in the same situation (or a number of differnet rulings in the same situation) Ernie interpreted the situation and made a ruling that was in line with rules.

Finally, beyond all of this, TD's are not infallible; they are human and are prone to make mistakes. At 888PL and APL the prioroty for our TD's is to host the event, provide a fun environment and to TD the tournament. To call their character into question, especially publically, is a disgrace.

I will gladly wear any flak when a TD makes a mistake at an event, we all have done it as TD's and that is how we learn and we evolve. I quite often get over three or four calls a week from a TD or RM asking what should I have done in this particular situation, it is an educational process as you cannot train someone up on rules (especially TD rules) as most situations are intepretative and in most situations you must make a ruling that is in the best interests of the game and fair and equaitable to all players.

And to Aun, if you have an issue with a TD then please feel free to send us an email or give anyone of us a call to discuss. One thing that we are all protective of is our TD's and you have gone about this in entirely the wrong way; post a question about a rule intepration for sure, but there was no need to name names.

[the dols]

Nice post GK

[warboat]

If I am all in, and two players are competing for the side pot and on the river one of the live players moves all in, the second live player folds and then the all in bettor promptly folds, do I have any rights to the Main Pot or do we reclaim the hand because effectivelly he has called my All in? In this case if their is concern of collusion the TD can view the cards or have them tabled, but only if there is belief that collusion is highly probable.

Hate to go against you Garth, but to allow the ALL-IN bettor to fold in that spot is wrong and against the rules. And this is the very type of situation we are arguing about.

I was ejected from this event and served with a ban in uncertain terms. While I may have deserved it for escalating the argument at the venue, I don't deserve it for trying to maintain the integrity of the game.

While Ernie will tell you his side of the story and say that I acted like a d1ck. I will point out that I did not snap at him to begin with. Ernie was the one who snapped at me. Ernie was out of line as a TD and I was the last person in the world that he could have intimidated in this spot.
His effort at the finals weekend after this incident is commendable but has no bearing on this incident or be used as some kind of excuse.

I did PM you directly the next morning about this. I still have not received a personal reply from you about it.

I am sorry to drag Ernie's name thru this and I don't mind my name being dragged thru it with him. I have no ulterior motive. I simply wanted to be heard and I did not want to see this incident be swept under the carpet. Using this forum is the only way I could get unbiased opinion of the situation. I know it puts you in a difficult position as the head of the organisation as your interest may be to protect your TDs. I cannot fathom the thought of being punished when I tried to uphold the integrity of the game (even though I may have gone about it the wrong way).
After all, the game is about the players, not the TD.