SA State Championships

[David]

partners event at the Crown.

Worst. Tournament. Ever.

I have a tear in my eye thinking about it

[maccatak11]

How much have FHG added in prizemoney in previous state finals? From memory, the last few years at least have been completely player driven. If so. And given the fact that the venues overall have not decreased (especially when we consider both 888pl and APL combined) then why does it really matter what other states are doing? It shouldn't matter!

[bennymacca]

i agree, it shouldn't matter at all.

for argument's sake, lets say they put $1 per player per venue towards state finals prize pool - probably a fair assumption but the actual number is irrelevant.

so, how can the whole player base remaining the same or slightly growing make the prize pool go down? yes, we have hardly increased compared with other states, but thats not the point - we are not after a 60k prize pool like nsw, we just don't want to be effectively subsidising their prize pools, because thats what is happening here - we are playing so that nsw can have a bigger prize pool at the expense of ours.

[Nathan Butler]

After reading this entire thread (and not being as up to date as I used to be) I think I would be fair in saying it seems like both sides of this debate are missing a couple of big points made by each opposing side.

After reading Tim's arguments I actually agree that it does make sense what is going on on the national scale. Some things people aren't factoring in is that going back a few years ago when FHG was operating NPL at it's peak they were operating 130+ games to an average field size of 40+ where now (even including APL in SA) it would probably be more like 80 with a 30-35 field size.

I think that the merger and new plans for prize pool distribution have highlighted that fact more than ever but many 888PL players are perceiving the decrease in prize pools size as a direct result of the merge rather than that fact the FHG were probably already over funding (or at least trying to maintain previous funding of prize pools) based or past success (venues/fields) which is no longer viable.

That being said though... (and provided it is correct) the one thing that bugs me is that, if venues/field sizes are the crux of the demising prize pools than the weekly in-venue games should be the focus of FHGs attention, not the ME. Although the ME sounds likes it is going to be amazing. Playing the regular weekly in-venue games seems to have almost no bearing on your ability to qualify.

It seems to me that the only way to qualify is through a handful of entries giving out at the State Finals and the vast majority of entries coming from Satellites. This in no way boosts interest in playing 888PL above and beyond the 10 game minimum participation rule.

If FHG could find a way to create more avenues of player success/qualification all derived from those regular weekly games whether it be, POTW, POTM, POFY, Monthly winners tournaments, Weekly step tournaments etc... then I believe player participation would grow, state finals and prize pools would grow and more ME tickets would be generated.

Under the current formula it seems all the focus is on the ME and with the recent hit to the State Finals, there is less incentive for the regular player to hit the felt more frequently which is what is really required to increase everything over all.

[JMACK007]

i agree, it shouldn't matter at all.

for argument's sake, lets say they put $1 per player per venue towards state finals prize pool - probably a fair assumption but the actual number is irrelevant.

so, how can the whole player base remaining the same or slightly growing make the prize pool go down? yes, we have hardly increased compared with other states, but thats not the point - we are not after a 60k prize pool like nsw, we just don't want to be effectively subsidising their prize pools, because thats what is happening here - we are playing so that nsw can have a bigger prize pool at the expense of ours.

Halleluja! This is, and has been, my point all along....The players in SA will not stay loyal because of this...

[Nathan Butler]

i agree, it shouldn't matter at all.

for argument's sake, lets say they put $1 per player per venue towards state finals prize pool - probably a fair assumption but the actual number is irrelevant.

so, how can the whole player base remaining the same or slightly growing make the prize pool go down? yes, we have hardly increased compared with other states, but thats not the point - we are not after a 60k prize pool like nsw, we just don't want to be effectively subsidising their prize pools, because thats what is happening here - we are playing so that nsw can have a bigger prize pool at the expense of ours.

Halleluja! This is, and has been, my point all along....The players in SA will not stay loyal because of this...

I think this is where the point I made above is very relevant. What is not being considered at the moment is... based on the above, argument and the current market place value of SA. I would suggest that the prize pools have been over funded for some time. The alignment of the APL/888PL brands has lead to a new prize pool distribution plan which in turn has lead to a more accurate and sustainable figure. It is just unfortunate that the figures is pretty big decrease. I don't believe the that NSW is really to blame, I think it is more a case of they couldn't pay NSW correctly because they were overpaying SA... not the over way around which is SA is now paying for NSW.

[JMACK007]

[I think this is where the point I made above is very relevant. What is not being considered at the moment is... based on the above, argument and the current market place value of SA. I would suggest that the prize pools have been over funded for some time. The alignment of the APL/888PL brands has lead to a new prize pool distribution plan which in turn has lead to a more accurate and sustainable figure. It is just unfortunate that the figures is pretty big decrease. I don't believe the that NSW is really to blame, I think it is more a case of they couldn't pay NSW correctly because they were overpaying SA... not the over way around which is SA is now paying for NSW.

Actually, I think the point you made above Nath is good as you have actually addressed the fact that this IS going to hurt the grass roots of the league. That is my major concern. I Don't blame NSW for anything, just the thinking of management on prizepool distribution. It seems a little cold and not thought out. There doesn't seem to be enough consideration given to FHG's previous (prior merger) player base.....

At the end of the day, we can debate till our fingers are raw from typing, but the fact is that from an 888pl player's perspective, they have MORE players playing the State final, but LESS money to play for!!!! I think I mentioned that along time ago....

This is a scary thing as it will actually discourage people from playing the league. Ian D made an excellent point earlier that there are games around that other leagues are offering that offer the same sort of cash for winning, but a much smaller field. These games run EVERY WEEK! This is not the time for FHG to be letting down their current player base IMO, as it can have massive consequences here in SA.....

[JMACK007]

Ok, this hasn't been asked, so I will ask it.

What rules will this State finals use (across each State)? I presume 888pl rules, but assume that quite a few APL noses will be put out of joint in NSW if this is the case....???.....

[JMACK007]

Also, maybe we could use our partners at 888.com as an example. As is my understanding, poker is a very insignificant part of their business, and often they run tourney's with overlay, but they do it because they understand that this can drive volume to their big ticket items. If they scrapped the poker component of their business, they miss out on the potential customer base that it can generate. This is a very simplistic example, but thought it worth mentioning.....

[bennymacca]

I would suggest that the prize pools have been over funded for some time.

if this is true, i have no problem with it, but this isn't what we have been told, we have been told that the lowering of the prize pool is to fit into a national structure.

It seems to me that the only way to qualify is through a handful of entries giving out at the State Finals and the vast majority of entries coming from Satellites. This in no way boosts interest in playing 888PL above and beyond the 10 game minimum participation rule.

If FHG could find a way to create more avenues of player success/qualification all derived from those regular weekly games whether it be, POTW, POTM, POFY, Monthly winners tournaments, Weekly step tournaments etc... then I believe player participation would grow, state finals and prize pools would grow and more ME tickets would be generated.

this is a good point - maybe it is time to scrap the state finals entirely and move to a monthly final type system which is how APL works if i am not mistaken?