Crown Cash Conundrum

[JMACK007]

No. Hand discussion on this forum is frustrating because some people are much much worse players than they think they are, and are not willing to accept other thoughts from more experienced players. That's all.

Care to elaborate on who these people are?

[Caleb]

How about telling Gmat to bet the flop and see where he is?? You all automatically put the guy on an ace, which is completely read based, and you don't have any reads!!! This is why hand discussion on this forum is so frustrating....

Because him betting the flop basically commits himself to the hand. It's not all based on reads, it based on many factors, CSI (chip stack index), position on the table etc. I can't believe I have to remind you of that Jo.

He has $115 left with pot already $100 with no side-pot.

What bet would you advocate in this situation? Would you really like him to bet $40ish then fold if shoved on?

If he is 200+BB deep before the hand, not 75BB with 18BB committed pre, then betting the flop becomes a viable option with the pre-flop line.

For the record; I didn't put him on an Ace. I put a MASSIVE part of his range on an Ace. With the bad line pre, we cannot call the flop, regardless of what he has, and we leave ourselves no wiggle room at all if we lead at the flop.

[JMACK007]

If we bet the flop, villain does not shove...

[Caleb]

If we bet the flop, villain does not shove...

How would you possibly know this before the fact?

[maccatak11]

Garth, benny the cunt, Scott, Krunchie and Caleb for starters. Plus others. Many of whom now refrain from hand discussion on this forum, for the reasons I stated above.

It's very easy to get into the 'yay, I can beat pub poker therefore I'm awesome' mentality. Believe me, I have been there. Until we all adopt an attitude like madali, who is a very good poker player by the way, and view every discussion and every situation as a chance to learn something new, then we will all be better for it.

As we all know, poker is full of egos, but our own egos really need to be set aside at certain times in order to truly learn and improve.

[JMACK007]

I was talking about who are the players that you say are much worse than they think (I have already read between the lines so I will start your list below)....

- JMACK

[JMACK007]

How would you possibly know this before the fact?

Because we don't put him on the Ace...

[Caleb]

How would you possibly know this before the fact?

Because we don't put him on the Ace...

If seriously don't believe that he can have an Ace here, especially with the way the hand played out pre, there is nothing more I can say.

[maccatak11]

How would you possibly know this before the fact?

Because we don't put him on the Ace...

First you say there are no black and white situations, which I believe some are btw, now you say we can't put I'm on an ace?? How do we know?? Sure hands containing aces might be a small part of his range (maybe) but how do we know?? I would love glen or Jo to put our KK into stove against the range you perceive our villain to be on here.

We can then gain an interesting insight into what we are thinking here.

[bennymacca]

How would you possibly know this before the fact?

Because we don't put him on the Ace...

Saying this is nothing short of silly it really is.

Sure he doesn't always have an ace nut after leading out I would say at least 70-80% of the time. If in this specific case villain doesn't have an ace then we are very very lucky.

You still haven't grasped the concept of ranges instead of specific hands have you Jo.