does the dream team points scoring need to be changed

[.roadRuNNer.]

I have a greater understanding (than most) of the requirements of this league as well as the business requirements of FHG and i think I do a fantastic job of ensuring both requirements are met (as closely as possible). In short 888PL is a business first and foremost but I still (personally) feel that I have an ethical and moral obligation to ensure I provide the best possible product to players.

In short Pete, I get the feeling that you breezed over this thread and did not read any of the possible solutions I proposed and you just wanted to jump on here and flame away. At no time do you offer anything constructive and decide that insulting me is the right way to make your point.

Cheers and DIAGF (can't forget the smiley, that means it's not really offensive right??)

[/quote][/quote]

Flaming indeed.

I actually agree with just about everything you say here Garth. Utopia is the only magic far away land that will satisfy every 888PL DT chasing enthusiast; and they're still working on a way to whisk us all away to that very distant & heavenly plain.

It's also hard to keep changing the system equitably and keep pace with the changing nature of the business on a year-on-year basis. I think your team do a great overall job of managing this responsibility.

Ignoring the DT scoreboard, I think the Dream Team separately is actually quite exciting to play for. A $10,000.00 GTD prize pool for an online event, and other prizes offered including Australasian events is quite enticing. And the structuring of the qualifying tournament is very fair - including State, Regional and Home qualifiers.

In the spirit of things, I have a suggestion in regards to the Dream Team Scoreboard and it's current allocated structuring.....

Because certain regions / players obviously have an edge upon consolidation of both the Away and Home averages;

has it been considered to simply allocate one of the Dream Team scoreboard slots to an online "HOME" qualifier? This would balance the integrity of qualifying for the Dream Team Scoreboard in respect of utilising Home averages.

From a business perspective, this could potentially entice more online registrations and player participation in the online game environment. I can't see it harming in-venue player participation being only one dedicated slot. It may actually increase revenue by having your existing customer base consider playing online in addition to their existing in-venue events.

In summary though, it'd certainly balance the integrity of utilising the Home Averages for Dream Team Scoreboard Qualification.

Kind regards
rR

PS - If I fly over for this years grand final, please bring masking tape so dissidents like me keep mouths firmly shut at all times and respect TD decisioning...

[pmk]

OK... into the Valley of Death I ride once more...

Regarding the smiley, it was used to convey that no malice was intended. If there was a “shaking hand” and “friendly pat on the shoulder” smiley I would have used those too.

One of problems I have with my clients is that they find it difficult to separate themselves from their target audience. Yes, you came from the ranks of league players, but now you run a National poker league and you play at a level of poker much, much higher than many of us will ever achieve. Do you know what motivates me? Do you know what motivates the likes Peter Masi? (yeah I know that is a hard one ) It was simply a FRIENDLY (hence the smiley face) reminder to take a step back and look at things objectively from time to time. If you didn’t take personal offense to almost everything critical of 888PL (no matter how much blowing up the skirt is done) then I wouldn’t need to explain myself (you’ve actually proven my point).

In regards to the more players = more money, I was informed sometime ago that 888PL received, along with a stipend, a piece rate per player. If you are saying that this is incorrect then I’ll take your word for it and apologise for being misinformed.

The issue about the history of the imbalance in the DT scoreboard (i.e. SA vs Vic) was unknown to me as the DT was something I considered unobtainable. It was only when I discovered myself halfway up the DT two seasons ago that I took notice. Suddenly ranking on the DT was a reality! Whoohooo! But on closer examination I quickly realised that any hope of DT glory was delusional due to the chronic and inherent imbalance in the scoring.

So the problem has always been there. I’ve waited two seasons before asking the question because I presumed that problem, and thus the solution, would be obvious.

Moving onto the solution: normalisation of statistical data is a way of removing errors, anomalies or imbalances in collected data. It allows data from different scales to be compared meaningfully. By using simple formulas it would be possible to create a DT table that accurately reflects a players skill rather than geographical location. If you so desired you could normalise the DT just using state variables or you could go even deeper and use regional information to create a truly balanced and obtainable ranking system for a MAJORITY of your players all over Australian instead of just 5-6 in Qld.

It’s been some years since I’ve studied statistics so I am unable to tell you exactly what type of normalisation formula is required (I think it could be residual with regression analysis but that would only be a guess) but I do recall enough to know that is a situation begging and pleading for normalisation. Armed with state, regional, venue and player data you could make a visit to almost any university Mathematics department and be pounced on by many eager mathematicians keen to create a normalization formula for you. Plug that formula into your league table and Hey Presto! You have a DT that reflects a players skill level and through which ranking is obtainable by a majority of your players. How hard could it be?

And the most amazing part of all this is that it won’t hurt any of the larger venues because the data basically remains the same. It will (should) help the smaller venues depending on the level of normalisation you choose.

As you know beating a field of 120+ in four hours is not necessarily a feat of skill. There is a HUGE luck component. Are the big games in Qld of 200+ runners limited to 4 hours also? This is yet another level of variance that means you’re comparing two different data objects. I mention this only to provide an example of how deep you could constructively normalise the player results (i.e. by venue/game type). (let me know if you’d like me to explain this further )

Just a point on the larger venues, people don’t go there for good poker games. They play for the CHANCE of points or for the social aspect. If you want a good game of poker where skill is used you play elsewhere. (getting to the final table with a mid stack and only having 1.5 blinds is a joke - and before you go religious zealot on my arse for insulting 888PL it is nothing more than a statement of resignation (the poker experts have declared that nothing can be done) and thus acceptance of the fact)

You are perfectly correct about me skipping over the majority of the pages in this thread. This is due to two reasons 1) lack of time 2) the solution is (to me) simple. Thus further reading would be superfluous. It has nothing to do with flaming or wishing to insulting you, and I did offer a constructive solution to the problem. However, in deference to your time I will make the time to read the rest of the thread.

[19stevo71]

I have a greater understanding (than most) of the requirements of this league as well as the business requirements of FHG and i think I do a fantastic job of ensuring both requirements are met (as closely as possible). In short 888PL is a business first and foremost but I still (personally) feel that I have an ethical and moral obligation to ensure I provide the best possible product to players.

bahahaha thats why the points system has changed 5 times in the last 5 seasons

[bennymacca]

pete, not sure what bee has got under your bonnet, but your posts reek of self importance and that you are cracking the sads becasue something didn't go your way. (happened to be before too, so i know what i am talking about )

[pmk]

hmmm... not sure where that's coming from benny the cunt. I had another follow up post typed just then with more info but I'll let it pass and go back to work

The solution's there. If they take it up, good. If not, meh...

[bennymacca]

hmmm... not sure where that's coming from benny the cunt. I had another follow up post typed just then with more info but I'll let it pass and go back to work

The solution's there. If they take it up, good. If not, meh...

why do you feel your solution is better than the current one?

normalisation does nothing imo, except for penalising the bigger venues.

[pmk]

because the current one still has the same imbalance in the structure.

normalisation will bring all the regions onto a level playing field. Yes it will take the advantage away from 5-6 players in Qld (more if the Qlders wake up to this), but in return it will open up the rest of Australia.

[JMACK007]

I have a greater understanding (than most) of the requirements of this league as well as the business requirements of FHG and i think I do a fantastic job of ensuring both requirements are met (as closely as possible). In short 888PL is a business first and foremost but I still (personally) feel that I have an ethical and moral obligation to ensure I provide the best possible product to players.

bahahaha thats why the points system has changed 5 times in the last 5 seasons

Wow, not sure this is too helpful! The points system has changed so much because it had to, (to my knowledge it has changed twice since the original system, not 5 times) the last system was definitely a better system than the original until the QLD market opened up to throw another spanner in the works, needing another change. The fact that it has changed so much really proves Garth's point IMHO.....

[Larx36]

Obviously there is no fair way to select a team of the best 888pl players each season.

I say good luck to those who can afford the time and the money to play 70+ away games with the addition of the home games. Some of these players have been able to play over 100 away games aswell as over 50 of the 5x multiplier home games which is an incredible feat in itself.

Most of us support 888pl as much as possible but I guess that as it stands now we have to just try to make the DT qualifier final and suck it up.

Good luck to those who give a toss

[Papa Bear]

Obviously there is no fair way to select a team of the best 888pl players each season.

Good point Dave, tricky to find the right balance