The "Integrity" of the State Finals

[Todd Rivers]

A lot has been said on this topic in many other threads.

People have been complaining about others getting a "free ride" into the State Finals through this & that means.

When the word "integrity" is used, I assume people are referring to the quality/skill of the players qualifying and the way they qualified. Would this be a correct assumption?

If so, do you think that all players in the WSOP main event are good? What about the Aussie Millions, ect?

You could be THE worst player in the poker world, yet if you've got a spare $10k+ you can buy into said events. What if you saved $12000+ over 5 years to go in an overseas BIG tournament, only to get there and talk to some guy who got lucky and "won" his entry in a free draw of some sort?

Does this effect the "integrity" of these tournaments?

Perhaps. But in ANY tournament, be it pub poker, online, home game buy-in, state-regional-national-world level ect, you are going to have to navigate your way through a field of donkeys before you get to the better players and the higher finishes. Its always been that way and it always will. Some people are luckier than others, some are more skilled, some are more consistent, some have more guts, thats what makes this game so great and unpredictable.

I would rather say I just won a Tournament with 800 runners than 600 runners, the more the merrier, the more of a challenge, the more patience needed to prevail.

In finishing, can we please stop whinging about State Finals? There are gonna be 5 every year! Better luck/skill next season if you didn't make it. Wish the players that did make it the best, get there and have a look and it'll make you try even harder next season, because its the BIGGEST and BEST poker tournament you will see in this State PERIOD!

[Nathan Butler]

Great Post Fox!

What players mean when they say intergrity, they believe that a player that has qualified at a venue that have run for fewer weeks than others is less deserving of a seat at the state finals.

Great post though

Both becuase of what you wrote and the manner in which you wrote it.

Regards

Nathan Butler

[Bob B]

Enjoyed reading your post Fox. Easy to read, easy to understand your points and meaningful.

You get an 8/10 and a lolly.

[Damatch]

The word in integrity is used to denote that for players to reach the finals they must have éarned' it, as opposed to an automatic entry with a buy in.
I know this because I have first hand experience with this exact issue.

Let me explain:
I was in the fortunate circumstance of being at both final tables in the state finals. I won my entry into the Vic Champs by coming 3rd. Then I won my second entry to the Vic Champs by coming 8th. Excellent! Now I can give my second ticket to my wife (who plays NPL), right? Wrong!
I was not allowed to give or sell my ticket away because it would spoil the integrity of the Vic Champs. This comes from the boss himself in Victoria. I begged and pleaded and reasoned with the top bosses, but they stood firm. I won't go into the details, but they have, and are in the process of compensating me for this.

Obviously it was hugely disapointing not to be able to give my ticket to my wife. In fact, had I known that was the case, was there really any point of me playing my season and showing up for the second finals? All I could shoot for was 1st place to win the Vegas trip or nothing. As if I need more poker tables and chips.

Now the NPL has stressed to me in the most emphatic way the integrity of the Vic Champs. I guess good ole S.A. doesn't get the same intregrity for our finals, by offering a quick way in.

In a way I don't really mind the little loop hole to get in, but at least be consistant. Is there íntegrity or not? Is this just a bit of fun or are we playing serious? The äll it's just a bit of fun"can be an excuse for a lot of things.

[Garth Kay]

Roger,
You forget to mention the fact that your prizes were upgraded to include upgraded accommodation, limousine transfers and also dinner at one of crown's restaurant. Sorry you did mention compensation I just didn't absorb that when I read your post, my apologies Roger.
You also forget to mention that I argued on your's and Wendy's behalf with head office on this matter for several weeks.
We priced each seat at the 150K Champs at almost $400 each, I believe the compensation you have received more than covers that.
I have already explained why these prizes were offered in the first two seasons and cash has not previously been offered. As I have previously stated in another thread:

In regards to the two week season for two venues, the reason's for this I have previously discussed and i must say from a personal viewpoint that I am not happy about it either, I do believe that it is unfair for all of those player's who did qualify through the long, rigorous way. But due to the success of these two events we have decided to implement a second chance "repechage" system, this new system will not be implemented until season 3, again this will make the State Finals still larger, but it is created for those who do spend their hard earned dollars at one or two venues per week to qualify through a satellite system. More on this later but already some player's are aware of this due to the loose lips of several staff.
I would like to state that the more people we have in a State Final does seem to weaken the integrity of the competition, at first glance, but the qualification processes are in place and will remain that way, we have 140+ events this season and may even push 150 or 160 by the end of the season. Still a lot of qualifiers, but if we were to reduce the amount of qualifiers at a venue and state leaderboard level I do believe we would see a huge consumer backlash. I think that most players would feel that playing in a larger field is the thing that draws them to the State Finals and does make it such a drawcard, whilst a minority of players would prefer to see stricter qualification processes and a smaller state finals field, but these are the poker players, not the majority of social poker players that is our market. If we do continually hit a qualifiers field of 600+ then we will scrap the flight system and only hold finals at venues that have the size to sit 800 runners from the get go.

My personal feelings on this matter have also been expressed numerous times. I still firmly believe though that the integrity of the NPL competition and the State finals is still of the highest standards and has not been effected by the decision to allow at least another ten entries into the state finals due to these events running in the final two weeks.

Maybe I will present a rule to head office that a venue must run at least four weeks to be counted as a season?
But the exception to this rule may be for venues that start another day, venues who have supported us since the first season of NPL.
As a business we have two major customer groups to satisfy, the players and the venues, it is a fine line to walk.

[the dols]

Gee, I am sick of all the negativity on this forum. Grow up everyone. We are getting a great product for nothing. Just a couple of beers etc a night which results in good poker with good people. People that you would not normally speak with at a hotel you suddenly become friends with as you have a common interest. Yes the great game of poker. I take my poker serious but it is not the be all and end all. Take it for what it is a social event with the opportunity to meet some great people and win some great prizes to recognise you luck and skill.

[Damatch]

Garth, I did stipulate the Victorian boss, not you.
I did, and do appreciate your involvement in helping me and my situation.
I thought tactfully of leaving out the details but if you want to bring it up on a public forum I will be happy to debate it.

Yes you were integral in upgrading my package to receive better accommodation (which was excellent), limos (also very nice as I have never been in one) and the meal voucher (which was even better as it was cash). Thank you very much.

But, we were promised business flights which never eventuated. On this point I must say I really could not care anyway, so no matter. Other finalists weren't so impressed.

I also had to fight tooth and nail for two nights accommodation not the one night offered, when I clearly won two. I had to negotiate that myself with Brayden (not easy). Brayden has also promised me an entry to an alternative tourny of some sort, yet to be determined. This is fair, considering I had two tickets into a 150K tourny. Once I receive this I am more than happy. All is good.

I have no intention as comming across as a whinger and a whinner. I just expected to get what I won or something similar. I've been patient, diplomatic and reasonable. But I've got no word from Brayden since the Vic Champs. As I've said (somewhere), Wendy and I had an excellent time in Melbourne, and it was thanks to the NPL.

I think this may be blowing out of proportion as we are 90% happy with what you and NPL have done. I feel for your posistion of trying to walk the very fine line of running a business and pleasing both the pubs and the players. I do not envy your situation.

As for the 2 week loop hole into the finals, I am really 50/50 on it. It's good and bad. I really don't mind. I thought I made this clear earlier. No matter what you do, people are going to complain. You'll do what's good for the business and that's what should be done. You surely can't listen to everyone's opinion, it'll drive you insane.
You might be trying too hard in this regard and come across too defensive. Your doing a great job, relax and don't read all these forum posts.

[Nathan Butler]

This statement i believes best serves everyone....

The next time a venue is launched close to the end of a season, go down and play for your chance into the finals instead of spending time discussing your distaste on the forum.

If you play and win, great! You made State Finals. If you don't make it then great! Atleast you following forum posts won't be taken seriesly if you failed trying to exploit the loop hole which you would later bash.

I think i would much rather say i made the state finals then tell everyone i didn't but had a solid case against the NPL for not doing so.

Nathan Butler

[Garth Kay]

Sorry Roger,
I don't mean to come across defensively, but I always have to argue the companies standpoint and explain why and what was done.
The public forum is a great place to express your discontent or dissatisfaction with anything NPL.
That way you can also get other player's opinions on the matter and may find support for or against.
As to the prizes I had no idea what Brayden has discussed with you, but I will be sure to bring up the other matter with him the week after next when I am back in Melbourne. I have already sent him an email chasing this up but I won't expect a response till later next week.

Again I do not mean to come across as defensive, and I am sorry. And as previously mentioned my personal opinions or feelings may differ to what the company requires, sometimes I like to express these opinions and let player's know that I agree with them or that I do try to advance player's thoughts and feelings to head office. As I did in your case.

I think your finishes' of three final tables in three major tourneys (400 runners+) does show the amount of skill you have as a poker player and ambassador for NPL, and I do personally feel that we could have possibly done more for such a skillful and stalwart NPL supporter.
That's my 2 cents.

[Damatch]

No worries mate. Thanks for that, I appreciate it.
I look forward to catching up with you at the finals.