AFL 2010

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Stubbyholder
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Re: AFL 2010

Postby Stubbyholder » Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:33 pm

bennymacca wrote:
Stubbyholder wrote:can you please define "proper argument "so I can get into the old versus new debate. ya fool


If you are going to present a point of view, back it up with evidence, don't just sprout "BS it was way better back then"

You present me with facts and I'll happily change my opinion on something



sorry dude

as the son of a engineer I have learnt that you can never prove anything to a engineer if they think they are right in the first place.

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Re: AFL 2010

Postby AceLosesKing » Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:02 am

LOL.
Scott wrote:Seriously, how hard is it to get his name right.

Aaron Coleman.

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Re: AFL 2010

Postby bennymacca » Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:24 am

Stubbyholder wrote:
bennymacca wrote:
Stubbyholder wrote:can you please define "proper argument "so I can get into the old versus new debate. ya fool


If you are going to present a point of view, back it up with evidence, don't just sprout "BS it was way better back then"

You present me with facts and I'll happily change my opinion on something



sorry dude

as the son of a engineer I have learnt that you can never prove anything to a engineer if they think they are right in the first place.


as an eletronic engineer myself, i think this is complete rubbish.
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David
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Re: AFL 2010

Postby David » Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:49 am

Stop comparing the players and compare the game.

The beauty of Australian Rules Footy is that the rules are particularly grey and unrestrictive. This creates the opportunity for a dynamic experience without too many restrictions. Compared to games like rugby (which are good in their own right) and footy is far more maleable.

Because of this, tactics change considerably from decade to decade. Players and coaches work out ways to exploit rules (or lack there of) in order to gain an advantage over the opposition.

The players are a by-product of the game.

For the best part of last century, the game was "get the ball, kick it long" - and the teams who were more skillful generally won out. Tactics came into play as teams saw avenues to not only attack, but restrict on a team-level rather than a player-level.

Also, the money in footy was nowhere near what it is today. Before - everyone wanted to win - and tried hard to do so. Now though, with the money on the line, the sponsorships, and everything that goes along with it, every instant on the field (and off) is cut-throat and analysed with a fine-toothed comb.

There is no "pure" game of footy. People watching in the 80s thought the 60s and 70s were better. People watching in the 90s and 2000s think the 80s were better. It goes on and on.

Footy now is more accountable. It is a business. Players have roles more now than they used to. There are players arond now who wuld dominate in other eras (even without the preparation/conditioning they've had) and there are others whow ould struggle.

Also, there are players now who would probably perform better back in the 70s or 80s.

The game (and therefore the players) have changed SO much it's almost impossible to say what's better, who was a better athlete, or what game was tougher.

I don't know what I'm saying.
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Re: AFL 2010

Postby Scotty » Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:00 am

Yay football!

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Re: AFL 2010

Postby bennymacca » Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:14 am

dave wins thread.

most of the arguments that i have heard favouring the older games are skirting around what we are talking about.

this is the crux of the matter

1. It is very hard to compare the game styles across different time periods, because the game really was different back then.

2. what you can do however is compare individual things, like the amount of tackles, the speed of collisions etc. all of these statistics point towards the fact that the AFL players run faster, for longer periods, and have more body collisions at a bigger impact than in the past.

this is a simple bi-product of the increased training loads that come with a truly professional game. players are fitter and stronger on average than they were in the past. this isn't a blight on those in the past, but just a fact.


as dave also mentioned, because of the freedom allowed by australian rules football, tactics change very rapidly, and will continue to change even more quickly as the game is analysed more and more. the game continues to evolve, and thats one of the things that i love about it the most. every era of football is exciting to me, especially when you watch the evolution of one style of play to counter another. the game ebbs and flows, from extreme defence to extreme offence, and every piece of the spectrum in between. and its great.

20-40 years ago, a long kicking style was favoured to power forwards like ablett dunstall and lockett.

15 years ago, pagan re-invented the tactics of the game by moving his half forwards and pockets up the ground to play as midfielders, and then have them charge towards the goals in support of carey, i.e the paddock.

at the same time, teams like adelaide and north melbourne were becoming the masters of the rebound from defence. it was during this era where the half backs became some of the most damaging players in the game.

then teams like sydney adapted to this free running and kicking style of play to the extreme by flooding the opposition forward line and streaming out of defense.

more recently, this flooding has been adapted again to full ground zone defences.

but once again, attacking and quick football has been the winner, with teams like geelong finding the best way to counter this is through the quick use of handball. collingwood have adapted to it by precision kicking around the boundary to get around the zone.


now i know i have been rambling, but my point is that football in every era is bloody awesome, and that the game styles are adaptations to beat other game styles. no longer can you put your rose coloured glasses on and say that the way to win is just to kick it long down the line. just because that was a winning strategy in the past, doesn't' mean it is now. and just because the came was comparatively simple back then, doesn't mean it was worse.

we can debate about this all day, but we cannot debate about the fitness and speed of todays game, because it is undoubtedly faster, simply due to the increased training. thats just a fact.
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Re: AFL 2010

Postby muzzington » Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:36 am

50 years of being wrong amirite!?
We've how about links I would like to know I walk the line scrunches line at how the client Lawrence etc. etc.

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Re: AFL 2010

Postby bennymacca » Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:50 am

for those that are interested, i found the full text to the article "evidence for the aetiology of injuries in australian football" by Kevin Norton, in the British Journal of Sports Science.

for anyone that is interested, pm me your email and i can send it through

here is an excerpt.

Conclusions—Over the past 40 years, the
game speed in the top level of Australian
football has approximately doubled. Over
the same time, the number of collisions
and the estimated injury incidence have
also doubled. This study provides additional
support to the suggestion that these
variables are strongly linked. Factors such
as ground hardness, playing level, and
time during the game influence game
speed and are therefore important in
injury development in Australian football.
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Re: AFL 2010

Postby bennymacca » Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:12 pm

found another full text of an article called "the evolution of modern football" which compares different aspects of the game from 1961 through to 1997. this is the article that we want to talk about.

it has all the data required. i will summarise in a sec, but if you want a full copy just pm me with an email address.
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Re: AFL 2010

Postby maccatak11 » Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:29 pm

send a brother the norton article yo
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