Taking bets back off the felt

[David]

I think you're misinterpreting what I'm writing.

Fact of the matter is most new people aren't being told what they've done wrong, they're just given some grace for making a mistake.

UTG (raises)

New player (calls the BB)

Another player: Nar mate, it's been raised.

New Player: Oh, I didn't know!

Another player: That's ok, just take it back.


New players tend to make this mistake a few times, both calling/folding out of turn, and calling the blind not realising it's been raised.

I struggle to remember a time where someone said:

"You can take it back, but please be aware of a raise - in bigger tournaments they are very strict on rules like that and you can lose your chips"


It's easy to say that people should know that in the big events it's run to the letter.. and people should know when most of the time their education is left to other players. I am not saying we should be hard asses, but we can't just not teach people either.

Maybe an FAQ should be written on rules, which is more so a list of things to clarify - that WILL be enforced - avaialble for semi finals, and large events.

[Nevah play JJ]

Your right Dave, I didn't really follow what you wrote, thanks for clearing it up.
Now you have, yep.. I agree.

I must confess I try and explain rules when I know them, but sometimes I get worried I look like a rule Nazi and my other issue is other players around the table.
Often I find when you cite rules to new players, you will often get other players at the table that contradict what you say, or will often say, "nahh it is ok.. your only new" and will often just go over your head and do what they want anyway.. eg: handing chips back.

It is frustrating, because there is only so many times you want to call TC's over or look like your the TC's bitch..

[Garth Kay]

No, I mean if someone IS new, and DOESN'T know the rule... just telling them it's been raised and to take it back doesn't teach them a thing.

Yep...
Makes heaps of sense..
Kinda-sorta like a case of tough love?

The only issue I personally have with that, is where is the encouragement to come back and play again if we play like a hardass?

But there are so many regulars that just will not learn..
Maybe there should be a cut off point.
Final table = no bet returns?
10 games a season = no bet returns?

I'm sorry Cazz but what don't you get about my previous comments. There is no black and white with rule interpretation and penalties. This is frustrating me and I am quite sick of players who are trying to use rules to angle shoot themselves and award themselves pots because they read or overheard one rule/ruling once.

As long as the end result is fair and equitable and noone is extremely disadvantaged then the ruling is fine.

There are so many things to be considered when making a ruling and simply saying "you miscalled you know have to call" or "your bet must stay in the pot" is incorrect and laughable.

THERE ARE NO HARD AND FAST/BLACK AND WHITE RULES/GUIDELINES WHEN IT COMES TO 888PL POKER or poker in general. Each scenario is different and it may apply to the same area and even then it can be ruled on several different ways by different TC's.

Go here and see how even world renowned TD's make different rulings on the same scenario (also check out how the scenario is describied).

http://www.thehendonmob.com/tournament_director/exposing_cards_in_error.html

[Nevah play JJ]

I'm sorry Cazz but what don't you get about my previous comments. There is no black and white with rule interpretation and penalties.

Hi Garth... No need to be sorry, I understand I am extremely frustrating
and believe it or not, I do understand that there are grey areas when it comes to some of the rules.

Maybe there should be a cut off point.
Final table = no bet returns?
10 games a season = no bet returns?

In my defense, this was a question, not a statement. Not a well put question, but it was a question.

But there are so many regulars that just will not learn..

This part was a statement. Whilst you get frustrated, as do I, sure my quantity of games has cut down, but this is only due to lack of 'enjoyable/playable" venues out Souf.
But often I play with the same people, who week after week make the same mistakes over and over and refuse to learn the rules and etiquette. But I guess that will always be an uphill battle.

This is frustrating me and I am quite sick of players who are trying to use rules to angle shoot themselves and award themselves pots because they read or overheard one rule/ruling once.

How do you recognise those that know how to use the rules to angle shoot and those that don't?
Or rather, how does a TC that is being pulled from pillar to post expected to recognise those players?

In all honesty, I can't think of a time I have taken a bet back because I didn't realise the pot had been raised. The reason for this is I pay attention!

Go here and see how even world renowned TD's make different rulings on the same scenario (also check out how the scenario is described).

Thanks for the link, I am going there to read that now.