Do you lay down JJ here?

[MattyMoo]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 5.5 Tournament, 40/80 Blinds (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG+1 (t1950)
MP1 (t2130)
MP2 (t6010)
MP3 (t6870)
CO (t8640)
Hero (Button) (t7740)
SB (t1910)
BB (t7490)
UTG (t3860)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J, J
2 folds, MP1 calls t80, MP2 bets t320, MP3 calls t320, 1 fold, Hero calls t320, SB raises to t560, 1 fold, MP1 calls t480, MP2 calls t240, MP3 calls t240, Hero calls t240

Flop: (t2880) 5, 7, 9 (5 players)
SB bets t240, MP1 raises to t1570 (All-In), 1 fold, MP3 calls t1570, Hero ...

[bennymacca]

snap fold, its not even close.

at WORST one of them has 15 outs against you.

[AJG]

I think, given MP3 can put some hurt on us, and 5-ways to a flop yes we fold here...
Even if a 4th heart falls, doubtful our J is good, and do we really want to (potentially) play for our whole stack here?

FWIW, with a raise and call, I seriously consider folding pre, but that also depends on the players. If they are raising and calling fairly wide I would tend to go the other way and shove on them (squeeze)

[gmatical]

Yes, 2 All ins (possibly 3) on a low flushing board raised and re-raised pre-flop should make you toss those Jacks into the muck.

I s'pose you sort of have the stack size to gambool, but probably not well advised to do so - Unless you are feeling lucky

Chips not lost are the same as chips won.
Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

820 games 0.005 secs 164,000 games/sec

Board: 5h 7h 9h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 07.988% 07.68% 00.30% 63 2.50 { JhJs }
Hand 1: 05.671% 05.37% 00.30% 44 2.50 { AcAs }
Hand 2: 27.012% 26.71% 00.30% 219 2.50 { KhQs }
Hand 3: 59.329% 59.02% 00.30% 484 2.50 { 5d5s }

Hey, I even 'stoved it for you with likely holdings (set, bigger pair, higher flush draw, higher pair) and your JJ is looking pretty average (although interestingly is a better chance then AA (no hearts)

[MattyMoo]

Thanks all. Nice to know I made the right fold... Or was it?

MP3 flatted.

Yes, someone had the Ah of course. But the turn and river bricked with a 4s and a 7d and the pair of 4's won the hand with J4d...

But yes, I did nearly lay down pre. But called purely for 'value'...

[bennymacca]

calling pre is fine - you can just about set mine with them, but if the flop comes 422r then you can go ahead and play your hand for value.

[Nevah play JJ]

snap fold, its not even close.
at WORST one of them has 15 outs against you.

Sorry benny the cunt.. Don't understand.. "not even close"?

You have the highest pr, as well as the chance of another heart coming out on either the turn or the river to give you the 4 card flush.
As well as a Jack possibly turning over at some point to give you trips.

Wouldn't this be the perfect kind of hand to try and push people in the first betting position and try to represent the flush, or would you check and let someone else try to do that?

If it was raised pre flop, you wouldn't put them on suited cards (or would you?)

Sorry, so many unclear questions, I really hope I make sense.
Thanks for the clarification.

[AceLosesKing]

Carolyn, you're assuming that the other 4 players in the hand all have hearts under the 10h. That's way too big of an assumption.

[Nevah play JJ]

Carolyn, you're assuming that the other 4 players in the hand all have hearts under the 10h. That's way too big of an assumption.

Yes I did... your right.
I guess I just thought that if someone raised, then there was a reraise, then you wouldn't have rubbish being played.
eg: A6 suited.. etc...
I couldn't see 68h being played after a raise and reraise.

Or would you assume that they would be playing AKQT of hearts?

Again, maybe that is too narrow sighted?

[David]

As well as a Jack possibly turning over at some point to give you trips.

Should add this to the "over used poker terms thread"


It's a set.