888PL Grand Final ruling and 1 orbit ban.....

[rcon]

I personally think the most important rule here is the about about all TD decisions are final.

I do feel for you with the (slightly) ambiguous rule, but really not worth creating a scene about.

Seems to be "gross misunderstanding" needs some clarification in the rules maybe?

[MattyMoo]

I nearly had a similar situation with 2 tables left. I re raised all in with AA and my opponent said call before getting a count. When the dealer told him it was another 109K he flipped a bit. I said we'll you've announced call so it stands and he said I know and played it out.

In every situation making sure you know what is going on at the table is critical. You may think everyone has folded and you've won the pot. I always hold onto my cards as long as possible to make sure someone isn't pondering with their hands covering their cards. I always say to myself "is it mine" in my head before sending my cards into the middle.

Not saying I've never been in the position you've mentioned. And I'd agree that the limp would stand and you fold unless you have verbalised "Call" in which case it becomes a tricky situation.

But yeah, don't argue with a ruling.

I heard one in the 888 Aus Mills rebuy game on the weekend where a guy went all in for 25K and the blinds were around 10 / 20 and a guy wanted to call the 25 but was told he had to complete the raise to 40K if he wanted to play the hand. That was wrong I believe. Both SB and BB could have just called to 25K.

[Garth Kay]

How is calling to the blind, only to see that the action was raised and wanting to withdraw it - angle shooting?

Because if I announce call; I can gather the strength of my opponents hand by this declaration. If my opponent has a strong anticipatroy reaction I know he is strong and can withdraw my bet as I "didn't know it had been raised!"

[Garth Kay]

How about management producing a penalty pamphlet to be given to all players in future GF's (perhaps states too)
Acting out of turn - 1 orbit penalty
Talking on phone - 5 minute penalty
Unknowlingly limping into raised pot - forfeit wager or meet raise
Failure to protect cards - hand dead
etc....

Won't happen because there are varying degrees of breaches attached to every action depending on past history and impact on play.

[Garth Kay]

I was the TD in this decision, and I am not going to go further into it, but I will highlight the salient points:

1.) Raised bet was clearly visible in front of live player and dealer confirmed that bettor had verbalised raise.

2.) Player who was penalised was in SB and was sitting to the left of dealer, if dealer heard it so should have SB.

3.) Player did not announce call from the SB but completed bet.

4.) Player did not follow action and there was no gross misunderstanding of preceeding action.

5.) Player was told three times to put chips back into the pot and complete the action of call, raise or fold.

6.) Player continued to delay for a further ten seconds and continued to argue with TD.

7.) Player was sat out for one orbit for delay of game and dissent.

Glenn,

Whether he went "ape shit" or not is not a factor; TD's have the final say and are the adjudicators of all tournaments. If you do not follow their instructions then disciplinary action will be taken.

[maccatak11]

/thread

[.roadRuNNer.]

TD's have the final say and are the adjudicators of all tournaments. If you do not follow their instructions then disciplinary action will be taken.

Like Garth, I don't want to go any further into it.

I'd just like to affirm that I posted this because of my understanding of the rules compared to the rulings made at the grand final & for clarification moving forward.

If Garth is saying the Tournament Director's decision is final, then so be it - I guess that's all I need to know.

My understanding was that the rules are final, and that the Tournament Director advocates those rules.

I'd like to highlight the prominent point of my initial post simply by quoting Rule 9 of Betting & Raising from the 888PL rule book:

"if you are unaware that the pot has been raised, you may withdraw those chips and reconsider your action, provided that no one else has acted after you."

However, as I've just elaborated previously above, despite the rules; if the Tournament Directors Decision is final, then i now understand this.

Case closed, on to the next pot.

[gmatical]

Glenn,

Whether he went "ape ****" or not is not a factor; TD's have the final say and are the adjudicators of all tournaments. If you do not follow their instructions then disciplinary action will be taken.

It was not 100% clear what he did to get the penalty, I just wondered what it took. ie raving on for 2,3,4 minutes, swearing, etc. to get the penalty.

For, if I was unclear of a ruling, I would most likely like to discuss it until I understood it (particularly a grey area) which may take a minute or two.
10 seconds? Probably enough time but it would likely take a bit longer if you had to explain 'gross misunderstanding' etc..

Anyway, a quick games a good game IMO.