Yep, Garth has copped cr@p already...

[gmatical]

Don't stress, I see domination in your future old man Swanky

[bennymacca]

did paul give this person a penalty for mucking your cards?

seems pretty ridiculous to me. in fact it borders on straight cheating the way you have described it.

[maccatak11]

and shouldn't he have gotten his call amount back?

[Swanky]

No penalties that I'm aware of. Mind you I was off looking fir a cat to kick.

[AJG]

Matt: In the vid she doesnt get the call back, only the raise she put in, and here old man Swanky was allin just to call...
But I think the same, atleast give him the 9K back...
In a situation were being accidentally mucked busts you out, that's really not fair - there should be something they can do so atleast you are not on the rail.
As benny the cunt alluded, this could be used as a form of cheating, which is actually within the rules! This is probably the easiest thing to do to cheat and get away with "Oh sorry it was a mistake" End Of Story!

If they started to retreive your hand old man Swanky, yet didnt end up doing so, why not? cos the 2nd card was a 4?? Otherwise why even look for your cards to begin with? No guarantee your cards will be the very top 2... And seems the other player didnt have a problem with u getting them back.
Like in the vid... seems the TD only checked the top 2/few cards, what if they slipped under a few cards as they were mucked? If she told him the exact 2 Aces she had, and they are anywhere in the muck, she should get them back imho... May not be according to a strict interpretation of the rules, but common sense dictates otherwise to me...

From 888PL Rules and Ettiquite:

Cards thrown into the muck may be ruled dead. However, a hand that is clearly identifiable may be retrieved and ruled live at a Tournament host’s discretion if doing so is in the best interest of the game. An extra effort should be made to rule a hand retrievable if it was folded as a result of incorrect information given to the player.

Or in cases like these?? What exactly constitues "clearly identifiable"?
Seems they were identifiable here, or do you need to be able to pickout the cards while still face down? And when is it 'In the best interest of the game' and when is it not? And what are the guidline governing this?

You must protect your own hand at all times. Your cards may be protected with your hands, a chip, or other object placed on top of them. If you fail to protect your hand, you will have no redress if it becomes fouled or the dealer accidentally kills it.

So it seems like, if the dealer says (incorrectly) "Its 2K on you to call" and you fold only to find you could have checked or called for much less, there is a possibility to retreive the hand, but if the dealer mucks you can't... But shouldnt it also be a player's responsibility to know what action they are facing?
Wouldnt it be fairer to either NEVER allow cards to be retreived, or allow it in ANY siutuation were a mistake has been made? (And they can be reliably retreived, as here where he knew the ranks) Why allow it in 1 instance and not the other?

Also, lets say a player does leave a chip ontop, yet they are still mucked by the dealer? Like here, they were mucked while counting a side pot, so it could still have happened even if they were protected. So you protected your cards yet they were still mucked... still dead?
Seems the only way to ensure they aren't accidentally mucked is to keep a hand on top of them...

Seems odd that if you muck your own cards after being given bad information, you can possibly get them back, but not if they are mucked by someone else...

How pissed would you be had this bubbled you in the GF. Quite likely a $1,000+ mistake by the dealer!

BTW, link on right to Rules and Ettiquite is broken...

[AJG]

Than after her cards are mucked she announces she had AA while the hand is still live!
What a mess of a hand!
I just hope there was no Ace on the flop, cos u'd then be annoyed at HER if u had AQ or something...

[maccatak11]

Yet, it is bad etiquette to keep your hand on top of your cards, as it makes it harder for the rest of the table to see exactly who is in a hand. Dealer should not be touching any cards except for those that are a part of the muck pile (and his own and the deck of course).

[Caleb]

old man Swanky and I talked about this on Saturday night. Although at the time he left out the part about the 4 being retrieved first. That changes what I told him a little.

If a hand is accidently mucked by the dealer/another player and the hand can be retrieved by the TD ON THE FIRST ATTEMPT then the hand can still be alive. This generally requires the player to know the suits of his cards as well as position of their cards in the muck.

If the cards cannot be retrieved on the first attempt then the hand is indeed mucked. In this situation with old man Swanky as SB he can't take his 6K SB back but I think he should take his 3K call back. I'm not 100% sure on that. Since he was calling allins it's a grey area, if he was raising and hadn't been called he would get his uncalled bet back. In fairness of the game a player should never be eliminated in this situation.

As for penalizing the dealer for mucking his cards, that can go either way too. I would have penalized him in this instance because:

A) his mistake led to a direct elimation of a player

B) his mistake was made not only while he was dealing, but while he was allin himself. Being part of an allin hand and mucking one of your opponents is an insta-penalty IMO.

I will state as a little disclaimer that I am a little rusty on these rules as they don't pop up very often, but this is how I would've handled it if I was running the game.

[Swanky]

Just quickly, dealer wasn't in the hand.

[maccatak11]

Just quickly, dealer wasn't in the hand.

Glad i read this. i was going to write something about suspensions after reading caleb's post.