Yep, Garth has copped cr@p already...

[gmatical]

So what happened in the other one Harps?

[krunchie]

back on russells penalty

i thought it was a players responsibility to protect his/her cards at all times

hence the card protectors or leaving chips on ones hole cards
we see so often.

i can not see why a single mistake by a dealer should be penalised by a full orbit penalty.

Remember last years main event a chick (leo margets i think)
had her aces mucked by the dealer accidentally (really bad mistake by the dealler) but it stood as the cards were in the muck.

From this moment on i have used a chip gaurd to make sure this hasnt happened to me

i would like to see the rule that applies to russells situation.

[bennymacca]

back on russells penalty

i thought it was a players responsibility to protect his/her cards at all times

hence the card protectors or leaving chips on ones hole cards
we see so often.

i can not see why a single mistake by a dealer should be penalised by a full orbit penalty.

Remember last years main event a chick (leo margets i think)
had her aces mucked by the dealer accidentally (really bad mistake by the dealler) but it stood as the cards were in the muck.

From this moment on i have used a chip gaurd to make sure this hasnt happened to me

i would like to see the rule that applies to russells situation.

russell wasn't dealer. thats the issue here.

other than that, i think its completely fine. if russ was the dealer then i dont think it would be an issue at all.

[666HARPS666]

gmatical ,not willing to go into it here sorry , But Garth handled it very well in the end .

Krunchie , unfortunately Russ was not dealing , just cleaning up a messy table up . He did feel really bad about it .
But it is players responsibility to protect their own cards . Russ beat himself up to much for what happened .& the orbit sat him out for over 30 minutes , damn slow table

[AJG]

No your right it can't be the dealers fault, as there is the rule that Krunchie points out about it being the players responsibility to protect their hand.
Just that he wasnt the dealer so shouldnt be touching anything to do with the hand, chips or cards. We all do this during normal away games to help speed things up (so many ppl just wont push their chips into the main pot before the next card is shown!), and no-one really cares, but in Semis and GF we need to resist that urge...

Edit: Harps' post just emphasises my point about doing it at normal away games cos they often slow as....

[krunchie]

thanks guys i missed the details there

unfortunatly if russ wasnt dealing then i see the problem

a chip guard or something would fix that from happening imediatly


bad luck russ

[Swanky]

Before I reply to this, I want to make it perfectly clear that I believe it is the players responsibility to protect their cards at all times. In fact I believe this may even be a rule.

This said, I have tried using card guards but have never been a fan.

But after Saturday nights events, I'll be digging up my "lucky" Top Gun card guard and using it for eternity.


Saturday night I played the $25 Bounty game as I had been eliminated from the ME earlier in the day.

I had struggled all tournament just being card dead. Then the tide turned and with my last 700 I managed to quadruple up with AT. 2 hands later I once again quardupled up with AT. And in a miracle 2 hands later I triple up with no one believing I could possibly have AT again. When the flop came TTX, the Swankster was back in the game.

Only to the become card dead again and the blinds increasing.

Having a bounty didn't help my cause much, as it seemed every blind he would make a move and I would have 3 people coming over the top before me. And with cards I had I was always having to fold.

Then it happened, the issue that will haunt me forever. The issue that wil change how I play for ever. The issue that will turn me into table Nazi.

After having to lay down my BB to a massive raise, I am in the SB with 9k left, blinds at 6/12k and me needing some amazing luck.

2 players fold, Bounty shoves all in for what seems like millions and is insta called by one of the nicest guys I met over the weekend, George or Spider as he's known to his mates. Everyone folds round to me and I look down at AK.

Oh yeah, I call! And ship my remaining chips into the centre.

Now the guy to my immediate right (the dealer) is also a bounty and just happens to be a Victorian TC.

My hand us tucked nice and neat against the rail awaiting my fate. Wow was shocked when I discover what fate has in store for me!

My new friend from Vic starts to work out the side pot and has he does, he leans in and...... MUCKS MY CARDS!!!!!

Yup, right before my eyes he scoops them up in to the muck pile.

I reached out like lightening for them grabbing his hand as my cards are inserted into the muck. At the same time I'm saying, "what ate you doing??" He looks back and says,"oh I'm sorry".

Another player opposite says to me, "it's ok, what did you have?". I declare AK, I was asked if I knew the suits. I said I didn't as I just squeezed and insta called.

The dealer then reaches for the cards as Paul Bell-Inskip comes over.

The first card is my ace, the second us a 4! He grabs the next card to reveal my King, but it's too late. My cards had been mucked and split up by this complete egg yolk. Actually egg yolk would be more intelligent than this fool.

Paul has no other option but to call my hand dead and I am eliminated from the tournament.

We are about 10 people away from the money and I am absolutely fuming. I have to admit, I lost my cool, the Fonz would have frowned. I dropped the F Bomb and stormed about 5 steps away and them decided to turn around and see how the hand would have played out.

BIG mistake.

Spider turned over KT, the bounty's hand is wied from my memory now, I forget what he had.

The plankton feeding, oxygen thief dealt the flop.

He windowed an Ace, I dropped the F Bomb again, directed vaguely in his direction and hopefully to the approval of the Fonz, as it was more under my breath this time.

I then steam rolled to the bar needing to put something in my mouth quickly to stop it from saying things I may regret.

I was full of rage like I had never felt before and hope I never will.

It turns out my A would of held up and I would have collected a nice chunk of change and back in the tournament.

Paul later came up to me and said he truely thought I was going to punch him. Poor bloke, of course I would never do that. But I was fired up that's for sure.

As I say it is up to you to protect your cards at all times. I would expect there had to be a limit some where to this I just don't know where.

I know it's easy to say have card guard, but this isn't a required piece of equipment for a poker player, like cricket pads for a batsmen.

As for the TC playing and dealing that hand... I hope his washing machine eats one sock in every pair he owns over the next few days.

[Brett Kay]

George Webb in that Story old man Swanky. Nice bloke came to a few of my tourneys, utmost respect for him, always plays well and a gentleman at the tables. Also did well in S1 Dream Team when Coleman took it down.

Does get frustrating when too many people are sorting out pots though. Use a chip, use a token, use anything to keep your cards together and not moving.

[maccatak11]

Use a chip

This is good advice, we dont all need a card guard.

But what does old man Swanky do in this situation because he is all in?


Perhaps dealers should ask a player to throw his or her cards into the muck, not grab them themselves (except for dead stacks or people away from table). The dealer can consolidate the muck into a nice neat pile if they want, but they should NEVER muck a persons cards who is sitting at the table. Problem solved.

[AceLosesKing]