Crown Casino Cash Game Hand #2

[gmatical]

Another one from the session

Me - $800ish
Big Stack - $1000ish
Tipsy Mc Drunky - $200

Same table as previous posted hand - Big Stack had about $1400 until I beat his Nut flush with a Full House 2 hands previous.

Tipsy was about 20 - pissed as, had borrowed buy ins from 2 of his mates. Classic drunk money.

$2/3

Big Stack (BS) UTG Raise to $14 (standard for him, liked a wide range of hands and showed alot of cards throughout the night, many of them sneaky flopped 2 pairs with one gappers & alike - his holdings were hard to pick and he showed his hands even when not required. Never bluffs, but often odd card combo's
Me [5d] [6d] calls $14. With my current fat stack I tossed in the $14 looking to get involved with BS with my mysterious cards and hoping Tipsy would come along.
Tips (Cut off) calls $14
The rest fold.

Flop

[9d] [7c] [4s]

BS C-bets for $25
Me Call
Tipsy Call

Turn
[8d]
BS Bets $100
Me Call
Tipsy Call

River
[3h]

BS All in
Me ??

Likely holdings of BS please

[trishan]

So 10 J and 6 10 are the only hands that beat you here.

I am probably re-raising the turn FWIW.

I think I would call the river. What do we beat that plays that way? 99/77/44 for sets, TT-AA for overpairs, 89, 78, 79 for two pair. I call.

[AJG]

Yeah the 9 kinda sucks, but coming in with that hand you hit what you wanted to, so if you arent calling there, then don't call preflop me thinks...
And the river is about as big a brick as there is, in terms of beating you, so if you think you are good on the turn, which you must have to call, what's changed?

I think the fact you doubled off the BS only 2 hands ago factors here to.
Both sides...
His river shove into such a comparitively small pot kinda says 'Please go away this time'
And you obviously dont want to give it back to him along with the rest of your stack only 3 hands later. (which is probaboly why u folded?)

I would think UTG raise rules out the hands Trishan lists as beating you although you can't completely rule out JTs. He has a set at best i think and an over pair is likely. JT is more likely what Tipsy McDrunk has ?? Why arent you concerned about him? This is the kind of board that these drunk players often hit hard. Him being in the pot may discount the odds of BS having hands like JT.... Also the presence of a 3rd player who clearly isnt going anywhere having put almost 70% of his stack in, perhaps BS is trying to sqeeze you out ??

Just a thought, but with hands like these that can potentially felt someone who cant fold QQ+ on these boards, did you ever consider a preflop 3bet? Not huge, maybe $35 or $40. Could help you determine his likely holdings and disguise your hand on boards like this... ie had you 3bet, you could almost certainly rule out JT OOP.

[Caleb]

I have to say, I really don't like way the way you flat all the way to river. You leave yourself with no extra info on the hand and also a pot below what it should be when you have a made hand before the river.

You state in your description that he never bluffs. So he has J10 and is just using the "extremely unique" overbet river shove to extract value.

Based on what you've posted about that player anyway.

[gmatical]

Yeah the 9 kinda sucks, but coming in with that hand you hit what you wanted to, so if you arent calling there, then don't call preflop me thinks...
And the river is about as big a brick as there is, in terms of beating you, so if you think you are good on the turn, which you must have to call, what's changed?

Ummmm........an unexpected $500 bet changes alot of things. The ugly end of a straight goes from looking kickass to pretty sad in the face of 5 black chips

His river shove into such a comparitively small pot

$400+ is not what I call small

I would think UTG raise rules out the hands Trishan lists as beating you although you can't completely rule out JTs. He has a set at best i think and an over pair is likely. JT is more likely what Tipsy McDrunk has ?? Why arent you concerned about him?

The cards he showed whilst burning thru his previous buy-ins meant i had little to fear from him – he was drunk as. He got moved to our table because he left his previous table to go to the ATM & they did not lock his seat & filled it. There was a huge commotion because the whole table wanted him back – I could see why after about 3 hands. I hate to think how much he dropped on that table!

perhaps BS is trying to sqeeze you out ??

Just a thought, but with hands like these that can potentially felt someone who cant fold QQ+ on these boards, did you ever consider a preflop 3bet? Not huge, maybe $35 or $40. Could help you determine his likely holdings and disguise your hand on boards like this... ie had you 3bet, you could almost certainly rule out JT OOP.

I thought it was possible that the BS was trying to get heads up with Drunky, and if drunky hit his JT, I would consider that just a bit of a cooler. I think the fact that BS wasn’t a bluffer lead me to think he had some sort of hand, never air or a draw.

I personally never re-raise pre-flop in cashies with these sort of holdings. I raise with them, but think there are less risky ways to get $$ and it kills me when we miss the flop – which we do so often.

Trishan, I wanted to keep Drunky in – so no re-raise on turn.

[gmatical]

I have to say, I really don't like way the way you flat all the way to river. You leave yourself with no extra info on the hand and also a pot below what it should be when you have a made hand before the river.

I didn't think I needed any extra info - I was fairly sure I was golden, and as stated I was flatting to keep in the drunk guy with very little chance of having the goods.

You state in your description that he never bluffs. So he has J10 and is just using the "extremely unique" overbet river shove to extract value.

Based on what you've posted about that player anyway.

He never showed down complete air - and took the trouble of showing all his hands. He showed busted draws, one pairs etc through the night - but never won with Ace high with no other decent drawing potential etc.....and check/folded check/checked a few rivers

If he did the same with KK I would still not consider this a bluff - he has a hand - does that make sense?
It did (sort of) seem like an odd play - but do we fold here with only 2 hands beating us?

[maccatak11]

Shove turn here and you save yourself lots of these tough river spots.

and playing KK in this way would be turning in into a bluff, because you only get called by better.


As played its a sigh call, unlikely that he has TJ (although it would be a small part of his range), sets or overpairs are his most likely holdings i think.

[Caleb]

Shoving with a single over pair is a bluff here. On a board like this, what will call him on the river that is worse than one pair.

If you are sure you are going to win, call the river regardless of how much it. The amount of money involved is trivial in this aspect, it's simply a way of keeping track of who is winning. Playing differently just because he bet more than you wouldve liked is not a good way to look at it.

Also, unless you hold stone cold nuts, more info should always be sought after, even if only for future reference. And by raising you also have opportunity of increasing the pot size. If you are " pretty sure you are golden" this should be your main concern.

[bennymacca]

if you are flatting the turn, hoping he shoves on a brick river, then why are you now thinking its a tough spot?

if you think you are good then snap it off. if you are worried about higher straights on the turn, then flatting is definitely the worst option because you dont know anything about his hand. i think you can raise-fold here on the turn pretty easily - sets and 2 pair are calling your raise, and most of the time, better straights are 3betting.

raising the turn is by far the best play here. i agree with caleb, i really dont like your play at any point in the hand.

[gmatical]

if you are flatting the turn, hoping he shoves on a brick river, then why are you now thinking its a tough spot?

I was not flatting hoping he would shove the river - his shove was actually out of character and this fact alone made it a tough spot.

As stated earlier my turn play was influenced by my desire to keep the drunk guy in.

Thanks for the comments, it is not as easy a call as some posters think - J 10 is a decent part of his range.

I called in the end thinking he probably had JJ/QQ or a set.

He rolled 5x 6x for a chop.

Drunky had 10x 7x