In Defense of the call....

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BigPete33
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In Defense of the call....

Postby BigPete33 » Mon Mar 03, 2008 4:17 pm

Here's a tip unashamedly copied from elsewhere that might make all of you calling stations out there perhaps win a few more discussions about why you called. Where it's from and who said it aren't relevant. If you happen to know, that's nice. :P



Most poker literature warns of the dangers of becoming a calling station. Common wisdom has it that when you're playing a hand, you should be betting, raising or folding. Calling is usually considered the worst thing you can do.

I disagree. When I play in No-Limit Hold 'em tournaments, I find a lot of situations where calling is the best available option. A strategic call might keep me from going broke in a hand where I hold a good, but second-best hand. Or, a well-timed call might allow me to pick up a pot with a hand that wouldn't win at showdown. Take a look at the following examples. I think you'll see that the call is a powerful and underutilized weapon.

Say you're in the middle stages of a tournament and you have a stack that is slightly above average. A tight player opens in early position for a raise of three times the big blind. You look at your cards and see pocket Tens. You probably don't want to fold Tens. It might be as good a hand as you've seen in a long while, and it may very well be the best hand at that moment. Many people would say that, in this situation, you should throw in a large re-raise.

But the re-raise can be dangerous. Depending on the size of your stack, you could end up committed to the pot and have no choice but to call if your opponent moves all-in. If that happens, you're probably up against a higher pair or, at best, A-K. You never want to commit all your chips when you're either a small favorite or a big underdog.

If, however, you just call the open-raise, you'll have a far better opportunity to make a good decision after the flop. The flop might come A-Q-7, at which point, you can fold to any bet, knowing there's essentially no chance your hand is best. Should you see a flop of 4-4-6 and your opponent bets, you can raise. Most opponents holding only A-K would fold at that point. If your opponent then moves all-in, you can be pretty sure that your Tens are no good. You can fold, having preserved a good portion of your stack.

However the hand plays out, you're sure to have a lot more information to work with if you just call the pre-flop raise. You'll get to see three of the five community cards before you commit the bulk of your stack. You'll also force your opponent to react to the flop. His action – his bet or check - is sure to help you determine the strength of his hand.

Here's another situation where calling pre-flop has great advantages. Say you're in late position with pocket 7s and a player from middle position open-raises. For the sake of this example, assume that the opponent holds pocket Jacks. The flop comes A-K-4. It's nearly impossible for the player with Jacks to continue with the hand. A good percentage of the time, this player will check. When that happens, you can bet representing the Ace, which will probably force a fold. You'll have earned a pot by outplaying your opponent. There's no better feeling in poker.

These are just a couple of simple examples, but I want to make the larger point. A lot of beginners seem eager to make all of their plays before the flop. On any decent hand, they're raising and re-raising, doing their best to get all-in. I believe that playing after the flop opens up opportunities for tough lay downs and good bluffs that aren't available pre-flop. Playing post-flop is actually a lot of fun. In your next tournament, try some calls in spots where you might have re-raised. I think you'll enjoy the experience.
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Re: In Defense of the call....

Postby maccatak11 » Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:06 pm

those tips were great, but nowhere does it mention to call a raise with crap in middle position, then call to the river just cos you had an ace or a gut-shot draw. no where does it say to call with 2 7 off or with j 2 just because they were suited. please dont give the donks ANY reason to justify their bad play with any hint of poker common sense.

(can you tell i have been burnt a few times in those exact situations lol)
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Re: In Defense of the call....

Postby maccatak11 » Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:08 pm

oh my god. this site automatically changes the work d .o. n. k to non-thinking player. lol. (people will probably laugh at me now as im probably only a few months behind the 8 ball)
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Re: In Defense of the call....

Postby Scotty » Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:24 pm

LOL. You donk

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Re: In Defense of the call....

Postby BigPete33 » Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:38 pm

It was a subtle attempt to get them to maybe think about when to call - instead of all the time.
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Re: In Defense of the call....

Postby maccatak11 » Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:43 pm

yeah i know what you were getting at pete lol. 10 bucks says someone will tell me that they read on the forum that they should always call cos its a good play. like the guy who called my all in with 2 7 off against my KQ suited (from the short stack), after flopping a straight, really annoyed me to find him hitting a runner runner flush grrrrrr. still annoys me lol
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Re: In Defense of the call....

Postby Garth Kay » Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:57 pm

Why does it annoy you? Why do people complain about players like that? If you moved all in preflop or even when you flopped the straight and your opponent turned over the hammer and said what do you want me to do? What would you say? I would be saying call almost all the time (99% of the time). So you got the call you wanted by an inferior hand and they got lucky, bad luck but next time you still want that same hand to play out exactly the same way. I suggest that if you do not want to get called, don't move all in, because you will get called 80% of the time in NPL.
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Re: In Defense of the call....

Postby Chelsea4thewin » Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:28 am

calling is a good play when u got someone firing away chips on every street and u calling conceals ur hand, great when u have the nuts

why would u want to take him out the lead? u want value out of ur pots
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Re: In Defense of the call....

Postby maccatak11 » Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:40 pm

yeah your right garth, just because other players call with i wider range of hand than i would doesnt mean that they are wrong. ive actually changed my game style in the last few weeks after moving to a new country venue where there are some lesser experienced people compared to the B&G region where i was playing.

normally, i used to use the 'tester' bet to find out a bit of info, knowing that at my old venue i would be re-raised most of the time by an experienced player with a really strong hand and i can get away cheaply if im not good. now if im playing with a table that has a few calling stations, instead of betting top pair/weak kicker or middle pair to find out about my oponents strength i have learnt to just check. as most players will just call, i found myself putting 300 or 500 into a pot, getting called and still not finding out any information. as a few others will not bet a middle pair, top pair/weak kicker or an open ender, just checking to that player can find out if im in front. i know that any bet post flop means a pretty strong hand. if i get check-check from other players then i can bet a few times, knowing that i will get value, and if they hit their gut shot well i know they would have called my bets anyway and i havent lost as many chips in the process.

(broken my run of DNP's anyway)
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