Checking down a dry side pot......

[Bob B]

I bet into a dry side pot at the Casino the other night. It was a $45 skittles event.

One player was all in pre flop, and called by the SB and me. I had Aces.

I checked the flop after the other guy did. Turned an Ace. We both checked.

Rivered an ace - giving me quads. I min bet and he folded. To me, who cares - nothing wrong with that. the aim (in theory) of checking down the board with an allin runner is to give the most chance of knocking them out.

Well, they were out so that wasn't something to worry about! I had acheved one aim - knock the player out - and was trying for the other aim, of getting more money!!

What you did was okay because you basically had the nuts. Only a running flush could beat you. In fact I would have bet on the turn just a small one to milk it a little on the remaining player.

[BigPete33]

If someone bets into the dry side pot and doesn't have as good a hand as you thought they might, and you fold... hard cheese. You can't have the nuts yourself if you're not calling/raising. Maybe your read was not as good as perhaps it could have been.

I cannot for the life of me agree with calling an allin and checking it down to possibly still lose the hand just because it's seen as polite. It just doesn't make sense to put chips in only to then give yourself the best possible chance of losing them. The only time it could be seen as not completely daft (to me) is if you're on the bubble, but calling to begin with would then be brought into question.

I want those chips, and if you do too then you had best start chucking some about.


so ner!

[AceLosesKing]

I was playing in a sit n go online the other day (real skittles). I called a preflop raise (blinds 100/200, guy goes all in for 240) with A9 suited. So does one other.

Flop is complete junk, we check it down. Turn the same, we check it. River comes and I haven't hit, playing with A high. I check.

He bets 350.

I tell him off, then fold. Cards are revealed and he has... 7 high. The all in wins with Q high.

[Nathan Butler]

Think of it like this Pete.

Your sitting on the WSOP final table. There are three players remaining. You have say 45% of all the chips in play, opponent B has 48% of all the chips in play and opponent c) has 7% off all the chips in play.

Player C moves all in from the Dealer position. You call from the small blind, big blind also calls.

NOW, the difference between 3rd place and 2nd place is over 2.5 MILLION DOLLARS. Regardless of of what cards you or your live opponent may have it is in your best interest to check all betting rounds and open two hands against the short stack in order to progress in the money.

This principles apply not only on the bubble but towards the bubble and at every stage of tournament in which the payout figure increases.

Some might say the above scenario is a one in a million but that example can be used in any tournament, some may not appreciate the value in small tournament of even in a home game but when the money starts and progressively increases a whole new set of unwritten rules come into play.

Some people will never understand this but it is in your best interest to check down a dry pot. Some times its also in your best interest to call with a completely dud hand and then check down a dry side pot. Yes you may be risking chips with weak hand but more often then not the risk is out justifiable but the reward (especially when you know you and your opponent will check a dry pot) the pot will present an upfront cost and five free community cards. Even if you do not win, you at least want the all in to lose.

Regards

Nathan Butler

[BigPete33]

Nathan, if I'm in the money at an event like that... I just don't mind where I finish. It's still a win.

[bennymacca]

Nathan, if I'm in the money at an event like that... I just don't mind where I finish. It's still a win.

does that mean if you accidentally finished second instead of third, because you dont mind, you will give me the extra 2.5 million that you just won??

unless you have the winning hand (quads most definitely is), then check the side pot.

[Bob B]

I can see where Nathan is coming from and in that scenario I would also check down the dry side pot. However the quad aces were worth a teaser bet to gain more chips and the chances of the all inner gaining a routine flush.

Dam, I just looked up and seen I'm in upper case. Not gonna change it as I'm too damned lazy.

[BigPete33]

Nathan, if I'm in the money at an event like that... I just don't mind where I finish. It's still a win.

does that mean if you accidentally finished second instead of third, because you dont mind, you will give me the extra 2.5 million that you just won??

unless you have the winning hand (quads most definitely is), then check the side pot.

oh PLEASE play against me benny the cunt

With reference to being in the money, my point was basically that financially you have already won (as in it's effectively cost you nothing or you're ahead) so going for it is entirely up to you as opposed to what someone else wants you to think.

I'm certainly not suggesting *always* bet into a dry side pot.

Just for the sake of shooting the breeze... let's say you are all-in benny the cunt. I flat call and so does James (he's not here so I'm going to pick on him).

Before we think too much about it... I called because I think I'm ahead of you. And I also think that James might have called for value.

The flop is reasonable for me, with 'reasonable' meaning I'm still well in the hand. That could mean a good draw or top pair for example.

I make a reasonable bet, James gets in a huff and folds and then whines about it being a dry side pot and how I should have checked (and he would too)

I had no idea what James might have had, but I just found out it wasn't worth chasing and it certainly wasn't the nuts. I've now just eliminated losing to runner runner or 2 pair or something else equally frustrating from that player. Checking it down just because could well have wasted my entire investment in that pot.

Now we're at the end of the betting, we flip the cards and my initial read on yourself will be either a) pretty much correct or b) pretty much wrong. If it's wrong then it sucks to be me and that would have been the end result regardless. If I'm right then I very likely win all the chips and if you're lucky, I'll only gloat a little bit


That's just an example of when I would bet into a dry side pot, there's plenty of examples of when I either would or would not do so. It's not me saying 'I'm right and you are wrong', it's just me offering a point of view. I really don't mind if anyone agrees or disagrees or chooses to do it or not do it.

I just know I won't be checking it down just because there's a dry side pot.

[bennymacca]

ok, fair enough pete.

in that case i would probably not check down the side pot either.

what i am talking about is when 2 players with good stacks call a third extremely short stacked person, say 3BB or less.

now this is a piddly amount of chips compared to your overall stack. in this case, it is worth more to you to knock the person out than it is to hand a small amount of chips to your opponent that is still in the hand.

so i think it depends on pot size as well. if that pot is half your stack, well its worth getting the other player out and narrowing the field.

but if you have 100K in chips, and you are only potentially giving your opponent 15 or 20, then i think checking the dry side pot is the way to go. does everyone agree with me here?

[AceLosesKing]

Checking down a sidepot should be done at all times, so I have the possibility to see two free cards