Crown Cash Conundrum

[JMACK007]

if you take the players out of crown. How does the table image look now?

I'm not sure I understand Brett, we ARE in Crown...

[Brett Kay]

if you take the players out of crown. How does the table image look now?

I'm not sure I understand Brett, we ARE in Crown...

Everything can be broken down into variables. In this case your focusing on the environment which is Crown, if this same situation occurred in Vegas how would your proceed, if it was online at 1c/2c, 10c/25c, $100/$200 with respective stacks.

[JMACK007]

Mate, all I offered is that at Crown the guy can be put on a much wider range than the ranges the guys are putting him on. Do I really have to fill in the gaps??? I've never played in Vegas, so I don't know the answers to your questions...

Fact is...please refer to the title of this thread....We are talking about a cash game at Crown, and my input is that those guys play bottom pair exactly the same way, I am guessing if Gmat knew this, he probably would have made alot of money from this hand......

**Please don't tell me that the environment in which you are playing has no significance, because I can assure you that it does...

[Brett Kay]

Mate, all I offered is that at Crown the guy can be put on a much wider range than the ranges the guys are putting him on. Do I really have to fill in the gaps??? I've never played in Vegas, so I don't know the answers to your questions...

Fact is...please refer to the title of this thread....We are talking about a cash game at Crown, and my input is that those guys play bottom pair exactly the same way, I am guessing if Gmat knew this, he probably would have made alot of money from this hand......

**Please don't tell me that the environment in which you are playing has no significance, because I can assure you that it does...

The title might be Crown Cash Conundrum, but we are trying to get a discussion about the hand and how it is played out. With the limited information that we have, not to mention anecdotal evidence of how loose crown players are what is the correct way of playing the hand out.

We can factor in the enviroment after we have decided that if this hand came up in any situation the most logical way of playing it would be A..B..C. Once we factor in the environment and previous hands played with opponent we can then factor that in to give us the best way to play against said opponent. E.g Going from A to D then getting back to B then hitting C.

We are trying to pin the fundamentals first and then evolving the equation to include random variables.

[Caleb]

Mate, all I offered is that at Crown the guy can be put on a much wider range than the ranges the guys are putting him on. Do I really have to fill in the gaps??? I've never played in Vegas, so I don't know the answers to your questions...

**Please don't tell me that the environment in which you are playing has no significance, because I can assure you that it does...

They call down. They very rarely lead at you with bottom pair. Even if you have checked to them. If he is calling pre-flop with a 4 in this situation and then betting the flop, then good luck to him. But that is not a situation you can ever predict and is not a range that should be considered.

Fact is...please refer to the title of this thread....We are talking about a cash game at Crown, and my input is that those guys play bottom pair exactly the same way, I am guessing if Gmat knew this, he probably would have made alot of money from this hand......

C'mon Jo. Be serious. So if the old guy doesn't have an Ace in his hand, yes, being stubborn with KK here may a profitable play, THIS HAND.

But with no read and no real reason to doubt he has us beat, you can't repeat that success with any certainty AT ALL in the future. So you just flat out shouldn't play that way. Just because you would win the hand in question does not make it the correct play. Being results orientated is how to become a losing player.

[666HARPS666]

Has no one else but me factored in the "Crown cash game factor"???? He has bottom pair, middle pair on a good day....

This,^ I have watched many cash games @ crown. & after listening to someone I respect as a Friend & poker player I will not play a cash table there. Only Tournaments. It was the best advice ever given to me about my poker game. Thanks Jo I am with you

[madali]

Has no one else but me factored in the "Crown cash game factor"???? He has bottom pair, middle pair on a good day....

This,^ I have watched many cash games @ crown. & after listening to someone I respect as a Friend & poker player I will not play a cash table there. Only Tournaments. It was the best advice ever given to me about my poker game. Thanks Jo I am with you

I have only played crown cash tables 10 times and all but one walked away a winner. I have watched perhaps 10 times more than that as when we go my husband or friends usually play. Everyone keeps saying to me "they are the most loose aggressive players you will find". Sometimes they are sometimes they are not depending on the players at the table. I usually spend the first 1/2 hour or so just watching what others are doing and not playing a hand so I can get an idea of what people are playing. For the most I am super nitty with hand selection but also super aggressive with the hands that I do play. I know that with the hands I have played that I am getting it in with the best the majority of the time. I also know that I have been super lucky to walk away a winner so many times and dread the time that variance catches me. I find , and this is just my opinion, that the best way to beat the fish is to make them pay if they are going to call me with crap. With this in mind last time I was there I had this hand. What would you do in this case?

stack sizes: each of the players in this hand had great stacks me being the lowest with about $350

2/3 table
8 runners
mid postion me: Kh Kd
Utg raise to $12
me reraise to $32
bb call
UTG call

Flop Ks, Kc 2c

UTG check

Me?

Spoiler:

I bet around $50. Why because each time I had raised or reraised pre flop I had been getting called and when I continuation bet on the flop there were players who were just shoving it over the top usually with an under pair to the board or with bottom pair ( unlikely given this flop). BB folded and UTG tanked for ever and was about to call when his mate said you cannot be serious and then he folded. Did not want to check as I thought that by doing this I was screaming I have the king and if I varied my continuation bet I think I was doing the same. What do you think? While I know my bet stopped my from getting any further action I thought it gave me the best chance of getting paid off (except if a 7 hit on the turn or river as UTG had pocket 7's). I showed the hand and was able to make a killing with my continuation bets from then on in as nobody called.

side note to crown players: Again with the tables I have played and the tables I have watched play can vary dramatically. If you sit down at the table and say because it is crown they are going to play any 2 cards it is a big mistake. While you may find a lot of loose aggressive players there or just plain fish that will not always be the case on your table. My theory is actually watch the other players before you start to loosen up and play so that you really do know how others at the table are playing and then make you judgment. It really reminds me of 888 to be honest that while there are a lot of players who are just learning there are also the sharks (which I consider you one Jo) who can eat me alive. I need to adjust my play to the players on my table who are in any given hand when playing.

[BigPete33]

If you sit down at the table and say because it is crown they are going to play any 2 cards it is a big mistake.

Finally, some sense.


That doesn't just apply to Crown, it applies everywhere.

They're no better/worse over here in SA and from what I hear about QLD it's no different there either. It may be slightly more accurate to say "on the $1/$2 tables" or "at the lower limit cash tables" but even then you are putting yourself at risk by tarring everyone with the same brush.

Your main concern should be your own fundamentals.

If an opponent plays a hand badly and gets lucky (hello most of 888PL) and you are confident that how you played the hand was the correct and logical thing to do, then what's to worry about? It'll catch up with them and you'll very likely be in front of them when it happens, no big deal.

[Sinitster]

(not even noticing the Button Raise, was excited about my KK (black) dealt to me

sure the old guy didn't notice this ?

sigh fold for me , or definate cbet on flop

did the old guy call pre with 88 or 44 ?

[bennymacca]

you should move up stakes to where they respect you flat calling twice preflop with KK