Beat/Vent Thread

[666HARPS666]

Thanks Stubbaci ,
But it wasn't a nice hand I new I was behind & was very lucky to suck out on the river

But thx anyway

[bennymacca]

I know Iam a level 1 player as you pros call it...........but who can actually calculate tis in their head in the 20 seconds u have to play the hand........

the point is, you dont calculate it directly every time, but after doing it a bunch of times off line, in the heat of the action you can start to intuitively feel when it is profitable to shove and when its not.

i.e you dont calculate that in your head, but you say something like "harps has been limping a fair bit here, i think if i shove he will fold a fair proportion of his range and i think its profitable for me to shove"

then, through review of your hands after the fact, you can do some calculations and see whether it was actually a good play or not, and then modify your game accordingly for the future

[JMACK007]

benny the cunt, that's exactly my point! I was playing that table, not you, and the way Harps was playing his hands pre, there was no way I would shove pre on that hand.

But Garth's explaintion as to the reasoning behind the shove pre is very good, and I will take it on board....

[bennymacca]

But Garth's explaintion as to the reasoning behind the shove pre is very good, and I will take it on board....

ok, so tell me in your own words, in a couple of sentences, the reasoning behind shoving any two cards in your spot and why it is a profitable play

[JMACK007]

Sigh!

Most limpers would fold to a shove there, but it all depends on who is limping, and your read on them...

benny the cunt, stop trying to get me to prove that I know what I am talking about (both here and via PM), it will not work, I don't feel the need to prove anything....

[Stubbyholder]

I know Iam a level 1 player as you pros call it...........but who can actually calculate tis in their head in the 20 seconds u have to play the hand........

the point is, you dont calculate it directly every time, but after doing it a bunch of times off line, in the heat of the action you can start to intuitively feel when it is profitable to shove and when its not.

i.e you dont calculate that in your head, but you say something like "harps has been limping a fair bit here, i think if i shove he will fold a fair proportion of his range and i think its profitable for me to shove"

then, through review of your hands after the fact, you can do some calculations and see whether it was actually a good play or not, and then modify your game accordingly for the future

thanks benny the cunt nice answer..this is why I will never be above a level 1 player.....to lazy to improve......to much of a gut instinct player

[Garth Kay]

I know Iam a level 1 player as you pros call it...........but who can actually calculate tis in their head in the 20 seconds u have to play the hand........ JMACK as I have said before as the son of a engineer oonce u say u r wrong to them dont expect to win the argument against a engineer........nice hand Harps :,D

I can actually, using the spreadsheet and HEM stats calculate the correct move in about 10 - 15 seconds. We have all of these tools to help us and most of the time I don't need to use ICM in ITM/Bubble situations now.

There is a bit of metagame involved but as benny the cunt said above, it is about constantly reviewing your play, making those adjustments and then letting those understandings become more intuitive and instinctual.

And tbh - a lot of the stuff to do with ICM is really level 1, level 2 thinking. In all of the cases we are just thinking about our hand and then calculating +EV moves against villains possible ranges.

[JMACK007]

I know Iam a level 1 player as you pros call it...........but who can actually calculate tis in their head in the 20 seconds u have to play the hand........ JMACK as I have said before as the son of a engineer oonce u say u r wrong to them dont expect to win the argument against a engineer........nice hand Harps :,D

I can actually, using the spreadsheet and HEM stats calculate the correct move in about 10 - 15 seconds. We have all of these tools to help us and most of the time I don't need to use ICM in ITM/Bubble situations now.

There is a bit of metagame involved but as benny the cunt said above, it is about constantly reviewing your play, making those adjustments and then letting those understandings become more intuitive and instinctual.

And tbh - a lot of the stuff to do with ICM is really level 1, level 2 thinking. In all of the cases we are just thinking about our hand and then calculating +EV moves against villains possible ranges.

Hi Garth, it's interesting that you mention instincts above. When you play live without all the bells and whistles software gives you online, do you find yourself relying as much on instincts as the actual math (the math of course is a major part)? Bearing in mind you have more time to make decisions live, the math comes into it, but do you agree that instincts definitely play a major part?

What I have found with hand discussion threads is that it is very hard to read all the necessary factors involved when reading the hand in black and white. There is definitely history (at the table involved as well as previously) that comes into account with each decision made at the time the hand is played. Just seeing one hand that may be 1000 hands into a tournament can be kinda hard to comment on without the prior knowledge of what has been happening previously, so maybe some comments can be good "general" advice, but in the situation played, maybe not the right play at the time.....

This leads to the frustrations you have seen...

[Bacon]

Easy Game: 66 left in $1 ($150 gtd - cash from 30). I was chip leader, villian was 2nd.

He had open shoved pre the hand before.

$200/$400 Blinds No Limit Holdem - *** 10 12 2010 23:47:59
Tournament #29025547 $1 + $0.10 - Table #12 (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 1: ...Tboy... ( $1,029 )
Seat 2: jumaru ( $6,440 )
Seat 3: rarndt ( $3,300 )
Seat 5: Kogkos ( $8,514 )
Seat 6: catala66 ( $8,500 )
Seat 7: quadsrit ( $16,004 )
Seat 9: neneziane ( $10,650 )
Seat 10: bacon8100 ( $24,369 )
neneziane posts small blind [$200]
bacon8100 posts big blind [$400]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to bacon8100 [ 7d 7s ]
...Tboy... folds
jumaru folds
rarndt folds
Kogkos folds
catala66 folds
quadsrit raises [$1,050]
neneziane folds
bacon8100 calls [$650]
** Dealing flop ** [ Ks 7c Ah ]
bacon8100 checks
quadsrit bets [$2,300]
bacon8100 calls [$2,300]
** Dealing turn ** [ 7h ]
bacon8100 checks
quadsrit checks
** Dealing river ** [ Js ]
bacon8100 bets [$4,400]
quadsrit raises [$12,654]
bacon8100 calls [$8,254]
** Summary **
quadsrit shows [ Qd Qs ]
bacon8100 shows [ 7d 7s ]
bacon8100 collected [ $32,208 ]

[John Miller]

$20 NLH villian is vpip 47 agg 0.0 my vpip 30 agg 4.6
I am CO
cooler ... or am I just not supposed to be in this pot? (fold pre FTW?)

http://www.pokerhand.org/?5850732