Taking bets back off the felt

[maccatak11]

We will always be stricter at a Grand Final and not allow so much leniency as it is expected all players are experienced compared to those of a pub freeroll environment.

Yeah this was my understanding of it. At a pub freeroll, it is about learning, and as such it his highly unlilely that the player called out of turn to gain information i.e. it is usually an honest mistake when it happens. Therefore warning the player, explaining the rules and applying a possible penalty for subsequent times is the way to go.

At a grand final, people should be expected to know the rules already, so penalties could/should be applied in the first instance.

[JMACK007]

Actually incorrect Jo.

If I verbalised "call" and only put enough out for the original bet then this is still an angle shoot. I am looiking for a response to see how the allin player will react to my "call" of their all in. If their reaction is positive then I pretend I made a mistake and say "I didn't realise a player had re raised all in, ooopss my bad! Soz!" If the reaction from the player is negative then I make the call of the all in.

Follow?

Yeah, fair enough mate.

Yeah this was my understanding of it. At a pub freeroll, it is about learning, and as such it his highly unlilely that the player called out of turn to gain information i.e. it is usually an honest mistake when it happens. Therefore warning the player, explaining the rules and applying a possible penalty for subsequent times is the way to go.

You're on fire in this thread!! This is what I was getting at about common sense prevailing....

[Nevah play JJ]

I can't help you here; rules of poker are not cut and dry. There is always other considerations to be made and truth be told your OP is a disaster in the actually clearly defined retelling of this particular incident. In some cases bets/calls can be retracted in others it can't.

Also to compare a ruling and statements I have made at a Grand Final (the most professionally ran tournament of the entire 888PL) to that made at a regular 888PL freeroll is quite farcical. We will always be stricter at a Grand Final and not allow so much leniency as it is expected all players are experienced compared to those of a pub freeroll environment.

As to your OP I believe Macca's response to be the most apt.

Thanks heaps Garth.
I did do my best with the OP but as I said, as clear in my head as it is, I didn't try to read it as another person.

But to ask a blunt question..
am I right in assuming that if it is less than the original raise, eg: someone raises 3x blind, and someone calls for just minimum bet, then they can take the bet back?
or again does that come down to what is going on at the time?

So in what cases can a bet not be retracted?

[Nevah play JJ]

We will always be stricter at a Grand Final and not allow so much leniency as it is expected all players are experienced compared to those of a pub freeroll environment.

Yeah this was my understanding of it. At a pub freeroll, it is about learning, and as such it his highly unlilely that the player called out of turn to gain information i.e. it is usually an honest mistake when it happens. Therefore warning the player, explaining the rules and applying a possible penalty for subsequent times is the way to go.

At a grand final, people should be expected to know the rules already, so penalties could/should be applied in the first instance.

Well stated

[666HARPS666]

I still believe the callers chips should stay in the pot .
even if the thought it was the min-bet

[David]

I agree with what people have said. Especially the part about the learning being in the pub, and the strictness being in the large events.

My issue is that there isn't always learning done in the pub.

ie, someone puts a call in, and doesn't realise it's raised. It's all good and proper to say they learn from that - but really they don't.
What happens is someone else says "Nar it's been raised", to which the other person says "oh..?" and looks blankly. Someone else will say "take it back".

They don't actually learn anything at the time.

[Nevah play JJ]

Dave,
So are you saying that if someone just automatically takes it back, then they have obviously done it enough to know that they can do that?
Then absolutely I would totally agree with you.
Where is the learning in that?

However, if someone leaves it there and doesn't know what to do, then you should take that as an opportunity to teach them the right thing to do?

I find that the drunks are often the worst offenders of not realising what is going on. Well them and those that won't listen to the rule about mobile phones at the tables... (grrr @ that offense)

[666HARPS666]

My venues the bet always stays ,They have the choice to match bet , or chips are in pot

[David]

Dave,
So are you saying that if someone just automatically takes it back, then they have obviously done it enough to know that they can do that?
Then absolutely I would totally agree with you.
Where is the learning in that?

However, if someone leaves it there and doesn't know what to do, then you should take that as an opportunity to teach them the right thing to do?

I find that the drunks are often the worst offenders of not realising what is going on. Well them and those that won't listen to the rule about mobile phones at the tables... (grrr @ that offense)

No, I mean if someone IS new, and DOESN'T know the rule... just telling them it's been raised and to take it back doesn't teach them a thing.

[Nevah play JJ]

No, I mean if someone IS new, and DOESN'T know the rule... just telling them it's been raised and to take it back doesn't teach them a thing.

Yep...
Makes heaps of sense..
Kinda-sorta like a case of tough love?

The only issue I personally have with that, is where is the encouragement to come back and play again if we play like a hardass?

But there are so many regulars that just will not learn..
Maybe there should be a cut off point.
Final table = no bet returns?
10 games a season = no bet returns?