Question of the Day

[gmatical]

Bet here. But make it value sized. No more than $20.

If the person knows what they are doing, they fold alot.

Checking to call a turn bet or lead the turn?? A passive waste of time and money. You will be in a near identical position but you have given him/her a free card to punish your passive play.

If they are loose they often have J 10 sooted, 6 7 sooted etc... looking for a flop from heaven. If they are calling 3 bets with Ax other then AK (perhaps AQ AJ depending on their looseness or commitment to defend the initial bet) you should be excited to reload if you get stacked.

Couldn't the villan think you could have AK here ? If you are they type of player that c bets 90% of the time, you are the type that plays AK fast too most likely.

BTW, if your c-beting 90% of the time, 50% of these c-bets would be with air or with hands a lot worse the QQ. (even with the A on board)

If he check raises you - what does your gut say??

4 bet it back to him / fold ? Don't call whatever you do.

Give yourself a chance to win!!

It depends alot on what you have seen him do in other hands. I like the 4 bet myself - and i'm a fairly passive player myself. If his raise is enough to get u to fold QQ, a 4 bet could be enough to fold KK or Aces on the raggidy end. Playing against Loosies (u havent mentioned if he is agressive or not), bet flop, bet turn - if for some reason it is checked to you on river - check back.

I really think fold is his most likely action, don't talk yourself into thinking that he will re-raise you when it is less likely that he will.

[AceLosesKing]

What.

Value sized? For what? What worse hand is calling the flop/calling the turn.

[bennymacca]

Bet here. But make it value sized. No more than $20.

If the person knows what they are doing, they fold alot.

Checking to call a turn bet or lead the turn?? A passive waste of time and money. You will be in a near identical position but you have given him/her a free card to punish your passive play.

If they are loose they often have J 10 sooted, 6 7 sooted etc... looking for a flop from heaven. If they are calling 3 bets with Ax other then AK (perhaps AQ AJ depending on their looseness or commitment to defend the initial bet) you should be excited to reload if you get stacked.

Couldn't the villan think you could have AK here ? If you are they type of player that c bets 90% of the time, you are the type that plays AK fast too most likely.

BTW, if your c-beting 90% of the time, 50% of these c-bets would be with air or with hands a lot worse the QQ. (even with the A on board)

If he check raises you - what does your gut say??

4 bet it back to him / fold ? Don't call whatever you do.

Give yourself a chance to win!!

what does betting this flop accomplish?

what type of hands check-call this type of board in a 3bet pot? what type of hands check fold that may bet the turn?

i am not saying what is right or wrong, but i want you to name hand ranges for both these scenarios

It depends alot on what you have seen him do in other hands. I like the 4 bet myself - and i'm a fairly passive player myself. If his raise is enough to get u to fold QQ, a 4 bet could be enough to fold KK or Aces on the raggidy end. Playing against Loosies (u havent mentioned if he is agressive or not), bet flop, bet turn - if for some reason it is checked to you on river - check back.

I really think fold is his most likely action, don't talk yourself into thinking that he will re-raise you when it is less likely that he will.

i think you need to read the hand again. there is no opportunity to 4bet here. villain raises, and we 3bet, and villain calls.

also, in my first post it says that the villain is "a decent but loose-ish regular in the cut-off who raises to $8"

[gmatical]

What.

Value sized? For what? What worse hand is calling the flop/calling the turn.

Ummm... the point is to get him to fold to your c-bet.

Can't he fold here? If QQ is scared of the A, can't his XX be scared of the A too ?

The $8 is nothing to fear from a loosey in the CO. My 4 bet refers to if it goes check (him),bet (us), 3 bet (him) 4 bet chance (us) on the flop.

The thing I wanted to get across (but may not have properly) is that trying to keep the pot small (checking flops etc...) often allows villans with A rag to beat you when they may (or may not, i understand this is a possible and expensive option) fold to continued aggression

benny the cunt - i dont know how to quote you too, but same answer - can't people fold here to a bet??

A c-bet here works for 2 reasons - induce a fold, or find out where you are.

What hands check call?? Not many. Weak aces may (concerns about kickers, keeping pot small) The fold or warning bells from the re-pop is what we are after - not a call. Once the call comes - you are either stuffed, but you still have postion to a player that has check called. He will probably check the turn. If he does so, again, make a value sized bet.
BTW I don't me 'value' in the sense that you want him to call. The bets are on the smaller side to look like you have strength. These bets can act as blockers too - another advantage. They also set up a big river bet (or turn bet).

Do you think he continues blindly all the way to the river with any A ?? Itthink that there are only 2 options (good ones) here most of the time -show aggression when the flop is K or higher (repping AK) or fold to any bet. And if he is a reg - a bet will be coming sooner or later.

[Garth Kay]

Loose reg Glenn.

I would say that villain is likely to float all A hands (irrespective of kicker) and look to get to showdown for minimum cost.

In Most cases a loose reg will play back at you on later streets with marginal holdings. And I would not want to put myself in a spot where I am looking to call off my stack with QQ because the player is identified as loose.

Pot control is key here, checking the flop and analysing board texture and vaillains actions on turn can polarise villian's range.

Checking the flop, in my mind, is by far the most +EV play here for villains range.

If villain check raises your flop bet, how many times would you fold on the flop or on later streets if villain takes the lead?

How many times would you fold if villain calls flop bet and then takes lead on later streets?

My belief is our hand has huge showdown value and therefore pot control is of paramount importance.

[bennymacca]

Ummm... the point is to get him to fold to your c-bet.

but why do we want him to fold? if thats the case, it doesn't matter if we have QQ or 23o, we are turning our hand into a bluff. we have a massive hand that we want to try and get to showdown with, but we dont really want to go broke with here.

What hands check call?? Not many. Weak aces may (concerns about kickers, keeping pot small)

Do you think he continues blindly all the way to the river with any A

assuming our player is decent (which it says in the description), how many weak aces does he call a 3bet with when he is out of position?

in fact, since he called a 3bet, i think its AJ+ (prolly not even AJ) and pocket pairs 99+ in his range. there isn't many Ace-rag type hands in his range. the description of the player is that he is loose but decent, so he would almost certainly fold AT or something like this.




the point in this hand is that we are either way ahead (i.e he has a lower pocket pair like 99-JJ) or we are crushed (he has AJ+, KK).

so betting does one of 2 things. it either builds the pot when we are behind, and we lose a big amount, or he folds his mid pocket pair and we win a small pot. both of these options are obviously not ideal.


but if we check back the flop, against a loose villain, they are more likely to figure that we dont have an ace ourselves, and they will bet something like TT or JJ for value. of course we have to weigh up whether he checked an ace to us or whether he has a worse hand, but this is read dependent, and something that can be done on the turn and river where we are keeping the pot smaller and using our position. if he has AK, he is likely to check-raise on a board like that as well, and then we are in a world of trouble.


does that make sense?

edit: garth pretty much said it

[AceLosesKing]

Ummm... the point is to get him to fold to your c-bet.

So we can win a $51 pot, when we have the (strong, IMO) chance of getting weaker pairs to call the turn if we check the flop?

The $8 is nothing to fear from a loosey in the CO. My 4 bet refers to if it goes check (him),bet (us), 3 bet (him) 4 bet chance (us) on the flop.

Why are we 4betting, that simply turns our hand into a bluff. I would hate getting all the money in on this flop. To 4bet, we have to have a strong read that villian will fold all weak Aces.

The thing I wanted to get across (but may not have properly) is that trying to keep the pot small (checking flops etc...) often allows villans with A rag to beat you when they may (or may not, i understand this is a possible and expensive option) fold to continued aggression

Villian already has us beat with Ace rag. We save more money by checking/calling smaller bets then trying to 3 barrell bluff him off a weak Ace, which will not work all the time.

What hands check call?? Not many. Weak aces may (concerns about kickers, keeping pot small) The fold or warning bells from the re-pop is what we are after - not a call. Once the call comes - you are either stuffed, but you still have postion to a player that has check called. He will probably check the turn. If he does so, again, make a value sized bet.

We are never 100% "stuffed" if he check calls us.

edit: benny the cunt and Garth, +1.

[gmatical]

So..... in summary, the goal is to win a small pot by hoping it is checked down to the river ?

I think in reality it is never getting checked all the way.

What would we do if the villan bets $50 on an inconsequential river that followed a nothing turn card?

GARTH? ACES ? benny the cunt? Please answer the above question

[AceLosesKing]

So..... in summary, the goal is to win a small pot by hoping it is checked down to the river ?

Please learn to read, no one has said that.

What would we do if the villan bets $50 on an inconsequential river that followed a nothing turn card?

GARTH? ACES ? benny the cunt? Please answer the above question

What happened on previous streets? If it is checked to the river and villian bets $50, I am calling.

[maccatak11]

Bet here. But make it value sized. No more than $20.

What? we are gonna bet <$20 on the flop after we 3-bet to $24 pre flop? (pot approx $50)

This kind of bet just screams "im weak and scared of the ace. please check/raise me light"

We are basically inviting our opponent to outplay us.

If we bet, say $18 and get raised to $42, then we have to lay it down, wasting money.

If we check behind, then it induces a lot more hands to bet. not just weak aces, and certainly some hands we beat (lower pairs / air), which we can call.

So..... in summary, the goal is to win a small pot by hoping it is checked down to the river ?

I think in reality it is never getting checked all the way.

What would we do if the villan bets $50 on an inconsequential river that followed a nothing turn card?

GARTH? ACES ? benny the cunt? Please answer the above question

What kind of hand would the villain actually have that is checked on both streets and then he fires on the river? miracle sets? KQs? Im pretty sure ill pay those off because air/small pairs show up way more often.

A mistake that is often made (by me especially) is to bet too many flops with hands that are good, but not great. it sets up some positively retarded spots on later streets. This is the one part of my play that im working on now. Playing flops better means i can have easier decisions on turn/river.