You're a Bunch of Factors

Ok this thread might be a bit general, and as we know everything in poker is situation dependent, but playing pocket pairs (22-TT) in 6 max cashies always get me thinking (read: into trouble sometimes).

Lets assume we are on a 'standard' (whatever that is) 6 max cash table at micro/low stakes (say 10NL-25NL).

Some questions for the more experienced players:
- what is your general strategy for playing pocket pairs in


a) In an unopened pot from UTG/UTG+1
As discussed in another thread, raising these from EP often gets us into trouble on certain flops, and its a classic reverse implied odds scenario, and we often find ourselves bluffing a hand with decent showdown value.

Now at a 6-max cashy, where ICM, and even stack sizes (more people are deep) are less relevant , does our strategy change?

How much of a difference does full ring compared to 6-max make?

Are we always folding these hands in EP? and if so, all of them?

how often should we limp/call or limp/raise (if ever)?


b) late position when there has been a single raise
Can we profitably 3-bet small pocket pairs against a standard TAG from LP?

How much does it matter if the raise came from UTG as opposed to MP?

If the original raiser was a LAG or calling station, does this make us more or less likely to 3-bet our pocket pairs?

How often do we fold pocket pairs to a single raise when we are on the button/CO, if ever? (i seem to be getting squeezed by the blinds a lot if i flat call, and into trouble if i 3-bet and get called or if im 4-bet)

Im also going to assume that when there are multiple limpers, or where there is a raise and a call before it gets to us, that either overcalling to set mine, or squeezing are both ok? or are they?



This could turn into a thread where there are 6 posts, each half a page long (maybe i have asked too many questions), but im interested in peoples thoughts on hands like these. The way they are played can often mean the difference between a profitable player and a losing one.

We talk lots about specific hands, but not heaps about general thoughts/theories. It would be good to get a thread going about 3 and 4 betting in different situations going at a later date too.

If you have your own strategies/thoughts on pocket pairs in cash games too i'd love to hear them, even if they dont specifically answer the questions/thoughts above.

first thing to say here, is that 6max and full ring are different in this regard (and i have played about 50 hands of online full ring cash in my life)

i will make a full reply to this, but in general, i raise all pocket pairs from all positions.

(when i post my strategy, i will include some hem stats as they are interesting)

Hey matey,

I am still reading/thinking about the post but I noticed you mention ICM. Are we talking about cash games/tournaments here? I thought ICM is only applicable to tournies?

trishan wrote:Hey matey,

I am still reading/thinking about the post but I noticed you mention ICM. Are we talking about cash games/tournaments here? I thought ICM is only applicable to tournies?

ICM is tourney only

bennymacca wrote:

trishan wrote:Hey matey,

I am still reading/thinking about the post but I noticed you mention ICM. Are we talking about cash games/tournaments here? I thought ICM is only applicable to tournies?

ICM is tourney only

Apologies, I totally misread the OP.

trishan wrote:

bennymacca wrote:

trishan wrote:Hey matey,

I am still reading/thinking about the post but I noticed you mention ICM. Are we talking about cash games/tournaments here? I thought ICM is only applicable to tournies?

ICM is tourney only

Apologies, I totally misread the OP.

OP you too buddy!

yeah i should have said less relevant/not relevant.

only mentioned it because we were talking about playing a medium pocket pair in the early stages of a tournament in another thread.

I think it is impossible to create an exact formula on how to play these sorts of hands and be right all the time. also as we know and i think was mentioned before, any decison we make in poker should be relevant to who our oponants are eg what level of thinker are they, what is there style of play, how do they percieve my game play, what hands have i seen or shown down etc.

so that being said i think to be most profitable when playing these hands we need to adjust the way we play them against different oponants, also we need to adjust when playing against the same opponants. any half serious online player makes notes when playing against you and if you play regularly they will start to accumulate quite a few notes. so if you continually open 2.5x the b/b with small to mid pockets you will become predictable and will find it hard to get many streets of value with your big hands also you will get bluffed out of pots by your opponants who have an accurate read on your game play and know you cant call with your 66's-99's on an ace hogh board.

ideally we want to keep them guessing for as long as we can. by changing gears and mixing up our play we keep them guessing which is pretty much another word for gambling and to be a winning poker player we want to make our opponants gamble while we calculate and accumalate knowledge and numbers on each player and thus crush our 'gambling opponants' who have no idea what the hell we are doing and may as well flip a coin or shout bingo

i know i have probably gone on a bit of a tangant here and missed the point of this post but in my opinion it is impossible to play a hand one way and that is the best way or the most profitable way. being a winning player has very little to do with what you hold but rather what your opponant holds or what your opponant thinks you hold. if we can get these things right and get into our opponants mind we will know how to adjust our game to play these small to mid pockets in a way that is profitable.

Cheers, Jason

ps. i know i talk a lot of s##t

i like your post, but i think there is one bit in here that i would like you to explain more.

jasonbling36 wrote:so if you continually open 2.5x the b/b with small to mid pockets you will become predictable and will find it hard to get many streets of value

\

are you saying that you vary your raise sizing depending on what hand you have? in general, sizing or opens should be kept the same. some people vary it depending on the position they are, but it should never ever vary because of hand strength imo.


secondly, 2.5x is usually too small in a cash game, 3-4x is still standard in the games that i play. this is because most of the time, people are 100bb deep. the reasoning for smaller raise sizes in tournaments is stack preservation, both for pot control and for minimising the risk vs reward when stealing. but thats for tourneys, we are talking about cash games in this thread.

I am on the micro 6 max grind everyday, usually 3 tables, and the earlier the position i tend to raise slightly less 2.5 - 3 x ...in later pos I might raise a bit more 3-5 x even.

of course you must vary your play enough so you are not predictable in your hand ranges this is where HEM comes in very handy in looking over your days play you can in fact see where you might have gone wrong if you are getting too open in your raising and adjust your play, Prior to getting software to monitor my game i never even gave it a thought.

With my small pairs in 6 max i play them very carefully and on an aggressive table in early pos i will fold pre a lot of the time with hands 22-66, i do play at the same time every day so i do see a lot of the same players so my game might adjust depending on who is sitting.

Am very interested in others thoughts on this.