Further hypothetical - but now we involve gameplay and maths

[JMACK007]

I've been through this thread, and it's a good one.

It's fairly obvious that with the AA you call, but KK you fold, but basically it only comes down to one factor, the fact that DB (the rock) has shoved. You can put him on AA, KK minimum (QQ at a stretch), but basically a big pocket pair. With AA you have him dominated and since your side pot with him is 200K+ you should win this most times it is run. It basically doesn't matter what happens with the first 2 players as their stacks don't really come into it. You are still favourite against them, but winning their chips (and knocking them out) would only be a bonus....

You don't call with KK because as above, DB prob has AA if you have KK (basically just for the fact that there are only 4 of each card in the deck, so more likely that he has 2 of the 4 Aces than the only 2 K's left in the deck)....If he has QQ, well you kick yourself, but you still made the right move (being trusting your read/instincts, which will get you further in the long run over many tournaments)....

[MitchyMitch]

Middle of the tournament - Full ring - 500/1000 blinds no antes.

Position/Stack/Stats (VPIP/PFR/3b)

UTG - 16,000 - 22/18/4.6 - is now playing standard push fold poker with a 16BB stack

MP - 56,000 - 22/17/4.5 - very solid player, understands position/starting hand ranges and is a level 2 thinker.

DB - 160,000 - 12/10/2.6 - super tight player, has only showed down big hands, will flat for set mine value with pockets below TT but plays JJ+ very aggressively. Is a ROCK!

BB - 240,000 (HERO) - irrelevant.

UTG open shoves for 16K
MP three bets to 56K all in
DB snap shoves his whole stack in for 160K
POT now equals = 232K

Two scenarios:

1.) You look down at Ah, As.
2.) You look down at Kh, Ks.

Questions:

1.) Do you call in each scenario; elaborate on why you take your action?
2.) What hand ranges do you assign to each player?
3.) If we reverse chip stacks between DB and HERO does it change our actions as previously stated in 1?

I wouldn't be so quick to write off calling the DB jam with KK until i know few things.

1. Is Mr DB a winning player at the stakes of this MTT or higher. This is a vital aspect in my descision making here. if he's killing $109 mtts it change my decision relitive to a small stakes MTT player making a shot at a higher stake.

2. I would be asking myself, why didnt he just flat if he had AA here. If he's good he must know that the other guys are illrelivent so why is he trying to isolate them when he could use the effective stacks on the flop commit us if we flat pre when a worse holding. He would know this if he's a good mid to high stakes reg he might not if he's small stakes grinder.

3. to cut a long story short i would most prob. call if he's a high stakes player and not if he's a low stakes player, there is only 1 hand that beats you pre flop... AA and if he has that i would call it a cooler because its easy for the first two to have good Ax combos leaving at best 2 more aces in the deck. heck they could be all counterfitting eachother and you can be way ahead

[Sinitster]

Nice thread ....

*Disclaimer : early morning alcohol affected post . I have no clue what so ever on the maths side of poker , albeit , i can add and subtract . I am looking forward to trying to understand it !

Now here goes me ......

Question 1 ;

Scenario 1 i think i am calling , i too , not real concerned with shorter stacks , more concerned with "DB" ... if he has AA also , well hopefully the board runs nice to us and we splitting , and 2 knock outs !

Scenario 2 , i think i am still calling , as above , i am only really playing with DB (if DB folds is it a call ?).

Question 2 ;

UTG : pooh/any pictures/any pockets/Ax
MP : mid range pockets up , AT+ , Ax suit
DB : JJ + (aggressively trying to isolate , thinking he is in front of mid pockets and Ax)

Question 3 ; If DB shoved his 240k+ stack in , and i was 160k ,

Scenario 1 , i am in , lets go !
Scenario 2 , They call me "Bruce" !

I am guessing i am way of the mark , and i am looking forward to being schooled , but mid tourney , even if i lose to DB , i have reasonable +avg stack to play with , and if i win , i dare say i am close to chip leader !



*runs into corner waiting to get told to i am naughty and in the wrong class !





#..throws dirty chalkboard duster at old man Swanky , then farts !