I was kicked out of pub poker game!

[Caleb]

Nowhere in his post did he say he was asking a question Caleb! All he says is he was having a heated exchange with the dealer.

Are you serious? Did you not even read his whole post?

I was watching this from the rail and jumped in and questioned the dealer how this could be folded?

I know Ernie is your friend, but you are still allowed to question him as Tournament Director.

[666HARPS666]

did the player throw his cards face down? that is an instant muck "thats for warboat"

+ you are right about not being able to buy into S/F's

[Caleb]

did the player throw his cards face down? that is an instant muck

Again, are you serious? Cards are not mucked until they touch the muck pile.

And even if they did, due to the all-in nature of the hand the cards can still be retrieved by the TD on the first attempt if it is obvious which 2 cards they are.

I don't want to comment on this further until we get Ernie's side of the story, but you're not helping here Harps.

[666HARPS666]

last word Ernie said the hand was mucked soooo.

[sunbury2]

Is no one actually questioning the fact he entered the hand with only $20000 and ended up with $200000!! The most he could have got was $60000!!!!1

[Bacon]

Sunbury raises the most pertinent point here.


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[Hagar76]

in the end it doesn't matter cause rules are made up on the fly anyway

[Nathan Butler]

As a former TD (a damn good one I must say)

I will say the following.

1. Question me at any time you have a question or concern. I insist.
2. The cards are mucked when I say they are mucked.
3. Continue to question me after I have issued a ruling - be prepared to exit building.
4. If you "think" you "know" the rules. You are wrong. You only know what you think is right for you. Not what is right for the long term administration of the game in the context of a business.
5. Yeh Boi!

[warboat]

I am amazed that there is contention over whether the hand was mucked or not. This is an ALL-IN situation with no further action pending. The rules clearly state that cards must be tabled face up. All live players do not have the option to fold or muck. Furthermore, it is the dealer's responsibility to prevent any live hand being mucked in an all-in situation. You CANNOT muck, accidently or otherwise.
In this incident, the player actually tabled the hand face up. The cards were nowhere near the muck at all. The forward motion with the cards prior to tabling the hand has no bearing on this. The rules specifically states that a tabled hand cannot be killed by the dealer. In any case, forward motion bears no meaning especially when the table layout has no line marked.
During my argument with the dealer, he argued specifically that forward motion is a muck specified in the rules. He also told me I don't know the rules and to look it up on the 888pl website. I told him that he is wrong about forward motion. I also told him I had the rules in my pocket and we can refer to it.
He then took it personally that I challenged his understanding of the rules. A manager of the venue was now standing next to me due to the commotion and the dealer's threat that I be "banned".
The dealer proceeded to muck the cards and hastily pushed the pot to BB. He then declared final hand and determined that BTN had the smallest stack and bubbled the seat.
I exclaimed "oh my god! that's bull5h1t!"
The venue manager standing next to me told me "you're out of here!" and escorted me to the entrance. I did not offer any resistance nor did I continue to argue. I walked out on my own will accompanied by the manager. He was not holding my arm, there was no physical force or contact. I did stop at the entrance and apologised to him for the disturbance and explained the situation. He pointed out that he did not see what happened and ejected me based on being the most vocal. I told him I understand his position and have nothing against him ordering me out.
The TD/dealer made huge mistakes that could have been rectified. He was too arrogant to allow me to show him the rules and simply reraised a convincing bluff that nobody dare challenge except me.

[Caleb]

I notice you didn't actually answer the questions I laid out for you Warboat.

You just elaborated on what you already told us.


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