AFL 2010

[gmatical]

ROFLMA

Didn't quite laugh it off?

[trishan]

ROFLMA

Didn't quite laugh it off?

LMA

[bennymacca]

can you please define "proper argument "so I can get into the old versus new debate. ya fool

If you are going to present a point of view, back it up with evidence, don't just sprout "BS it was way better back then"

You present me with facts and I'll happily change my opinion on something

[gundog]

Ask yourself this question .....given a choice of selecting Swan or Judd into your team who would you pick?.....................My choice would be Judd every time.

Swan may have had an excellent season in a team devoid of real superstars, therefore other team members attracted votes and that is normal, on the other hand Judd is the superstar of Carlton now as he was with the West Coast, superstars tend to attract votes because they are the stand out player.

benny the cunt sorry mate but you are wrong about the modern game verses the past, no amount of scientific claptrap can compare now with then, a few points to ponder :-

A mark today is often awarded even though the ball is touched by another player before the mark is completed or even held for a fleeting moment, in the past a mark had to be controlled and not touched.

Compare full forwards say Reiwoldt and Dunstal, the former is a greater athlete who runs the legs off is opponent but is still not an accurate kick for goal, whilst the latter rarely ventured outside the 50m arc and was an accurate kick for goal.

Now consider a key component of the game kicking, todays player has small variety of kicks at their disposal, most revolve around the drop punt, and few trick kicks which daics was doing years ago so they are not new. In the past player a player like Syd Jackson fire a stab pass that travelled 30 yards a couple of feet above the groung and hit the target plater on the chest.

Rarely today do we see a player excute a hand ball with the skill of Diesel Williams.

Yes todays players are fitter faster but no more skilled than those that came before them, which would I prefer to watch easy the 70's

[maccatak11]

Gundog read the above posts carefully please. The argument was not about skill or style - comparing marking rules/interpretations is not relevant at all

(although i would argue that OVERALL, players on AFL lists can definitely execute their skills more effectively and more consistently that those of the past).

The argument was about whether the game of the past was as fast, or as physically hard as the game today. Dont mistake that as saying that old era players are all soft and slow, that would be false logic.

But the simple fact is that in can be proven that the game faster and harder than it has ever been. Using individual players as examples of overall standards of the game is also flawed.

So while you tried to back your argument up with examples etc, saying you dont believe in scientific 'claptrap' without having seen or read the article is simply stupid.

[666HARPS666]

G'day Gundog ,
No matter what we say or think we are wrong . 1 of my main points was the game was more freeflowing which meant the ball was moved on faster , not as many stoppages & bugger all interchanges . But bring in the late 90's & science & micro chips & computers to track every useless stat . We are never going to win this argument . Especially When Macca says he would never watch a game from be4 the crows 1st premiership win . so we must be wrong Gunny ~ : ) > .

Cheers [_])

[rcon]

You present me with facts and I'll happily change my opinion on something

Very Keynesian:

When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?

[gundog]

Sorry Mac you wrong an opinion can based on you own experiances, when benny the cunt asked for the facts he opened the door for arguement, what this author or commentator my have written or stated is their opinion, my opinion is formed from 50 years, I have played and watched the game and loved each era but the current crop of players are the most protected in history of the game, and are not subject to sheer physical contact that went on in the past, just look at the Byron Pickett rule this took the real physical bump out of the game.

Rewind a few years to the Hawthorn Geelong grand final Mark Yeats excuted a perfect bone shaking shirt front on Dermot Breton at the opening bounce, in the same game Dipper played part of the game with a broken rib and deflated lung.

My opinion is yes todays player is fitter, perhaps stronger and yes more atheletic but tougher no. As far as for the skills of the game, kicking for goal is a definate weakness in this era but overall most skills are on a par from era to era.

The advent of the interchange we rarely see an on baller play 100% of the game now, this gives players like Dane Swan the chance to recover and play the next segment flatout, where prior to the high interchange use on baller often rested in the forward or back pockets, so therfore the speed of the game is quicker.

[AceLosesKing]

"Scientific claptrap" - new sig IMO.

[maccatak11]

Professor Kevin Norton - phd in sports science, and a bloke who has worked for an AFL club, studying sport and AFL football all his life. Watched football for probably 40+ years

Graham Baldwin - AFL fan and service station manager, who has watched football for 50 years


I know whose opinion matters more to me.


Gundog just because players were allowed to shirtfront a while back doesnt mean they were tougher. Give me mark riccuito or brett kirk over mark yates any day.

Thats like saying that football players are tougher than basketball players, just because they play football. just because the rules are different doesnt make them tougher.

They can actually measure and estimate the force of the collisions that players were subjected to from different era's, not base them on a few examples of toughness. You are completely missing my point. As i said above, using certain examples of individual incidents to justify your arguments is silly. I am not saying that Dermy wasn't tough after he played on in the '89 grand final, but OVERALL the game is harder, and players need to be tougher than they ever have.

Harps, yes, no matter what you say i will believe that you are wrong, until i am presented with facts to suggest otherwise. Using anecdotes and isolated incidents are not facts.