Rule Clarification

[Chelsea4thewin]

Hey guys

just wanted some feedback on an incident that happened to me last week at an NPL tourney.

It was down to 11 players and with 4k left worth of chips and the blinds 500/1000, i get dealt pocket 9's so i push in all my chips, everyone folds besides the massive chip leader who made the call with 8/10 off, meaning im a huge favourite here, now the interesting part comes

the dealer for some unknown reason decides to burn all the cards when putting out the flop, not just the first one, meaning on the flop he burns a card, puts one face up, burns another puts one face up, burns, puts one face up.

Now i would of stopped the dealer but he was doing it so fast that i didnt get a chance and the fact he was burning the cards straight into the muck made it impossible to determine which cards they were.

Dakota the TD was watching and made the ruling that the hand is dead and needs to be re-dealt. This really annoyed me seeing there was 9k in the pot and would of given me at least a final table appearance.

Would we be able to implement a ruling that when burning the cards, you are not allowed to throw them into the muck? this really annoyed me because if this happened in the state finals i would of killed the dealer, not just a higher placing

what do u think?

[Scotty]

Are you saying he burn three cards on the flop? I'm a little confused.

[Nevah play JJ]

I must admit I am confused about what you mean by he burnt all the cards.

However, I totally agree!
There should be 2 rulings in regards to burn cards
1. They should NOT be thrown on the muck pile
2. They should NOT be removed from the pack until both cards are ready to be used.
(Meaning: Hold the cards, burn 1, turn 3, hold the cards, burn 1, turn 1, hold the cards, burn 1, turn 1).

I can't tell you how often things get confusing because the dealer throws the burn cards into the muck pile.

[Chelsea4thewin]

sorry scott didnt really explain it properly

Normal flop sequence:

burn card, show the next three cards face up (the flop)

WHat happened to me:

burnt card, next card shown face up (first flop card), burnt card, next card shown face up (second flop card), burnt card, third card of the flop shown face up

ur meant to only burn the top card of the deck when putting out the flop, hard to put it into words, sorry

[AceLosesKing]

What THE HELL was the dealer doing? Was this the first time he played poker or something? Obviously if he was still in at 500/1000 he had dealt a flop earlier in the night.

I agree there should be a rule that cards can't be burned into the muck - there probably already is anyway, but burnt cards should always be placed next to or near the flop, in case the need arises to go back through them.

Bad luck steve. How did you end up going on the rest of the night?

[maccatak11]

Although the flop was dealt incorrectly, the dealers msitake did not affect the hole cards of you or any other player, so perhaps the stub (in this case the cards remaining in the deck before the flop) could have been re-shuffled and the flop dealt properly? That is what i would have done, but hey im not a TD

[bennymacca]

Although the flop was dealt incorrectly, the dealers msitake did not affect the hole cards of you or any other player, so perhaps the stub (in this case the cards remaining in the deck before the flop) could have been re-shuffled and the flop dealt properly? That is what i would have done, but hey im not a TD

i agree with this - but if the burn cards are thrown into the muck with the rest of the people's folded cards, then how would you know what cards are part of the stub.

if you could work this out, then the stub could be reshuffled - this is what happens if someone accidentally deals 4 cards on the flop or something (i think i am right here)

[maccatak11]

Although the flop was dealt incorrectly, the dealers msitake did not affect the hole cards of you or any other player, so perhaps the stub (in this case the cards remaining in the deck before the flop) could have been re-shuffled and the flop dealt properly? That is what i would have done, but hey im not a TD

i agree with this - but if the burn cards are thrown into the muck with the rest of the people's folded cards, then how would you know what cards are part of the stub.

if you could work this out, then the stub could be reshuffled - this is what happens if someone accidentally deals 4 cards on the flop or something (i think i am right here)

Yeah true. Its unfortunate but i guess Dakota made the right call here. Still sucks though.

[Garth Kay]

It is in the rule book that all burn cards are kept seperate to muck pile.

In your scenario Steve, Dakota made the right call. If the burn cards could be identified then they would go back into the stub as well as the flop (except for the original burn card). Stub would be re shuffled and a new flop presented.

Unfortunately this was not the case and a dead hand was declared.

[Nevah play JJ]

So having said this Garth and just to clarify..

Does this mean we have the right to request all burn cards be kept separate to the muck cards?

I don't want to cause a stir, but I personally would prefer to see it done that way.