Double December Points???

[Bob B]

By that token, no venue should be allowed to run ANY promo to attract a big field, Bacon. That's just ridiculous.

Bathurst 1000 gives double points and every driver worth his salt wants to win.
Good on PGCC Mamagement for their initative and exacution.Imagine if it was held in Dec. Would it then make Porky the best ín the State?.

Hmmmmmmmmmm, do I sence a little tongue in cheek again in your quote Bruce?? With Scott's double edged sword and your TIC I am agog!!!!!

[queen9]

Hi All, I just wanted to add that I had not heard about double december either until a couple of weeks ago, it was posted on the website, but not until the season was under full swing. And I am a firm believer, having been dealt heavy blows before from changing the game plans mid season, that this is not only wrong, but immorral and perhaps even not quite legal... but hey, who am I to know?

I wanted to add also, that I have played under the current points system and the old points system whereby players were given set points on the top 15, regardless of the players present. and while this may have solved some problems, it has created others. the smaller venues are suffering, losing numbers and not getting the support. why would you go play at a venue with 40 people, when a win will only get you 50 points, when a venue with 100 people will give you more than that just for making final table.

The 15 games and the averages are what should have been introduced, not change everything - and especially not mid seasons, like now with double december.

I hope people vote with their feet over this one, cos we have had a great first few weeks and look like making the state final. but if things turn sour and the cards are not favourable, we can be overtaken by someone who got lucky for a few games.

and what about the people who use skill to play and don't just rely on luck? we obviously don't count as to change things again mid season, the poor communication and lack of consideration is just about tipping us all over the edge. It is making APL look more and more inviting.

[queen9]

BigPete33 .. you mentioned that the state leaderboard does not reward consistent players, can you explain this to me cos I am not sure I understand. I thought that the aim of the state leaderboard was to take everyone's top 15 games and average them out, making the playing field a level one ... and then the top averages would equate to the top 10 or top 50.

I am sincere when I say I don't understand and I am curious to your thoughts as I have not been privvy to the discussions you guys have previously had on this issue. I am not sure what state you are in cos some of the venues people mention in here are not all in the same state. so can you let me know where you are from as I would love to discuss this further. thanks ...

[bennymacca]

BigPete33 .. you mentioned that the state leaderboard does not reward consistent players, can you explain this to me cos I am not sure I understand. I thought that the aim of the state leaderboard was to take everyone's top 15 games and average them out, making the playing field a level one ... and then the top averages would equate to the top 10 or top 50.

I am sincere when I say I don't understand and I am curious to your thoughts as I have not been privvy to the discussions you guys have previously had on this issue. I am not sure what state you are in cos some of the venues people mention in here are not all in the same state. so can you let me know where you are from as I would love to discuss this further. thanks ...

i think i can answer this one as well queen.

suppose you were a player that played 100 games a season, at venues that average 100 runners or so. in those 15 games, you made the points maybe 30 times, and finished final table 15.

this isn't the best strike rate of making the points, but because of the amount of games played, there are 15 games that have big points attached to them, so this player will have a high average


now contrast that with the person that plays 25 games a season. they have a really good season, and make points in 15 games.

that is a pretty decent effort - but, this person is at best going to be level with the person that played 100 games based on the amount of point scoring games.

so in essence the leaderboard rewards the players that play a lot of games, not necessarily the best players.

sure, these players still have to be good to make the points, but they arent necessarily the best

i hope i have explained that in a way that everyone else agrees with

[muzzington]

Right. More games played means more finishes which equals a better batch of scores to draw an average from.

[Bob B]

BigPete33 .. you mentioned that the state leaderboard does not reward consistent players, can you explain this to me cos I am not sure I understand. I thought that the aim of the state leaderboard was to take everyone's top 15 games and average them out, making the playing field a level one ... and then the top averages would equate to the top 10 or top 50.

I am sincere when I say I don't understand and I am curious to your thoughts as I have not been privvy to the discussions you guys have previously had on this issue. I am not sure what state you are in cos some of the venues people mention in here are not all in the same state. so can you let me know where you are from as I would love to discuss this further. thanks ...

Hi there Queen and welcome. 99% of us on the forum are from South Australia and if your from say Victoria or Tassy then your state has only just come on board.

I think what Pete was trying say is that initially we had a true % of all our games played. And at the end of season one the winner was the person with highest overall percentage of all their games played not their best 15 of say 123.

The very first seasonal winner here stopped playing with around 4 weeks to go and had around a 42% or 46% average. He completed the required 10 or 20 games at the time, sorry, I can't remember which one it was and finished an easy winner.

Because he stopped playing the venues lost his attendance and so did NPL. So, to encourage people to continue playing to the very end and also playing megga games per week the raised the prize money and like to made it your best 15 game average.

If you look at the leader board and pick a player from it who has played say 80 plus games their overall average is crap. And many of us agree with Pete it's really not a true indication of the individuals skills per game only their best 15.

I'm pretty sure that's what Pete was refering too, if not I'm sure he'll let us know.

editted by Bob B; Bugga me dead benny the cunt, it took me so long to write my reply to Queen onlt to see you've already done one.

[Garth Kay]

BigPete33 .. you mentioned that the state leaderboard does not reward consistent players, can you explain this to me cos I am not sure I understand. I thought that the aim of the state leaderboard was to take everyone's top 15 games and average them out, making the playing field a level one ... and then the top averages would equate to the top 10 or top 50.

I am sincere when I say I don't understand and I am curious to your thoughts as I have not been privvy to the discussions you guys have previously had on this issue. I am not sure what state you are in cos some of the venues people mention in here are not all in the same state. so can you let me know where you are from as I would love to discuss this further. thanks ...

Hi again Rosemary,

You can check out these threads, I think they are the right ones.

Some good debate raged over these.

http://nplforum.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=240&hilit=state+leaderboard+skill

http://nplforum.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=108&hilit=state+leaderboard+skill

You will have to excuse the Cougar's posts, he decided to change all of his posts after he was made to look a goose.

http://nplforum.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=1035&p=13186&hilit=state+leaderboard+skill#p13186

This one is also a good read.


As to Double December points. Yes we stuffed up, yes we should have notified players earlier, much earlier than we did.

But it is still something we wanted to run with. As I have previously states I will reserve my decision on them until after the promotion has ended. So far the feedback i am receiving in person is 60% good, 40% bad.

The main point that upsets everybody is no notice about this promotion before the season commenced.

With Carlos' departure from the company I accept full responsibility for this error in judgment and for letting down our loyal players.

In saying that this promotion will continue, and I ask all players to give it a go and see how they feel after this promotional period is finished.

If anyone feels like this promotion has affected them heavily then please email me at my usual address.

[bennymacca]

editted by Bob B; Bugga me dead benny the cunt, it took me so long to write my reply to Queen onlt to see you've already done one.

no worries bob - i didn't mention the reason why they introduced it in the first place, so good post anyway

[queen9]

thanks for the feedback everyone, and yes I am from Victoria. just to let you know, as Garth has now told everyone, my name is Rosemary and I have won the title of State Leaderboard winner twice here in Victoria.

the first time I did it, I had a massive season, 3 wins, a couple of 3rds and hit the top in week 3 and stayed there, finishing with an average of over 80 (season 3, 2007) I played 43 games only and scored points in 19 of those games. In season 2, 2008, I played 50 games and had to fight my way to stay up there with my best finishes being thirds, but with points of 106.3 for one third place.

my averages, based on my top 15 games have been 80.69 and 78.28, showing consistency, however, last season I played only 26 games, and still finished in the top 50, qualifying for the state final, pointing in only 10 of those games. this must show that the bigger venues helped me get there, admittedly, but when I defeated 133 players and 145 another night, that must say something about my ability.

this season, I am having fun, playing with a different group, but getting annoyed as there is some cheating going on and the td's are having trouble catching them, so it is frustrating... but I have worked so hard to get where I have gotten over the last few seasons, that I have moved on to other things and now only play npl for fun, having played around 25 games this season so far, I will possibly make it to 30, but have health issues at the moment that may prevent that, we'll just have to wait and see.

I am an avid supporter of the state leaderboard - Alf Morely won back to back titles, under the old scoring system, this way is fairer, but probably still not ideal. my main concern is that the bigger venues are putting the smaller ones out of business and that lack of communication and things like double december, do not help this situation. I agree that people will give up the chase as their efforts and finances at this time of the year will take 2nd place to family issues, whereas the chance to win even a phase 2 seat for the aussie millions would have had me there every night.

my husband was 9th in the state and is now 16th as several players below him overtook him due to double december and my health issues. he played tonight and may get back in as he came 7th, but the fight will be hard and I am not sure we want to do this, so I can understand the frustration. I hope you can appreciate that being top of the state leaderboard does not make a player automatically the best, but the most consistent and I take a lot from that.

The double december will put a false leaderboard winner up there and totally destroy my record of the highest average and has now even pushed me out of the top 100, which is 68 places worse than my worst finish since I started 2 years ago. ... and it will only get worse from here.

I wish you all luck with the remainder of your season, and hope to chat to you all again ... I will be a regular in here, unless Garth kicks me out for being too honest ... lol ....

take care ... rosemary

[Origami]

By that token, no venue should be allowed to run ANY promo to attract a big field, Bacon. That's just ridiculous.

Bathurst 1000 gives double points and every driver worth his salt wants to win.
Good on PGCC Mamagement for their initative and exacution.Imagine if it was held in Dec. Would it then make Porky the best ín the State?.[

Hmmmmmmmmmm, do I sence a little tongue in cheek again in your quote Bruce?? With Scott's double edged sword and your TIC I am agog!!!!!

astute observation mine freund.

If you are good enough often enough you will gain points note Duc and ? also made points to hold their positions...
PGCC had 284 players SF 592 players PHCC will have ..??

Its a BIG Wide World in which we live..

Poker to me is a reflection of Life in this World Welcome to it. Deal with it enjoy and play the cards that You are dealt and may they fall /flop as you wish !!.
Sometimes they do go down the River...