It's not first ace.
It's high card, first one out if same.
To the best of my knowledge suits mean diddly in holdem, but I'm not any kind of expert.
Rule No. 10
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BigPete33
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Re: Rule No. 10
Pardon me, but I think you'll find that's a shovel. See you next Tuesday!
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Lizard
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Re: Rule No. 10
Here are some rules i got of a poker site a few months back that might help if your looking at writing new rules.
Here are poker betting rules pertaining to a No-limit Texas Hold'em Poker Tournament. Please note these rules apply to "No-limit", "Hold'em", "Tournament" poker games - they may not apply to your typical dealer's choice home game. All rules are quoted verbatim from Robert's Rules of Poker v5.
No-limit Rules
1. The number of raises in any betting round is unlimited.
2. All bets must be at least equal to the minimum bring-in, unless the player is going all-in. (A straddle bet sets a new minimum bring-in, and is not treated as a raise.)
3. All raises must be equal to or greater than the size of the previous bet or raise on that betting round, except for an all-in wager. A player who has already acted and is not facing a full-size wager may not subsequently raise an all-in bet that is less than the minimum bet (which is the amount of the minimum bring-in), or less than the full size of the last bet or raise. (The half-the-size rule for reopening the betting is for limit poker only.)
Example: Player A bets $100 and Player B raises $100 more, making the total bet $200. If Player C goes all in for less than $300 total (not a full $100 raise), and Player A calls, then Player B has no option to raise again, because he wasn’t fully raised. (Player A could have raised, because Player B raised.)
4. At non-tournament play, a player who says "raise" is allowed to continue putting chips into the pot with more than one move; the wager is assumed complete when the player’s hands come to rest outside the pot area. (This rule is used because no-limit play may require a large number of chips be put into the pot.) In tournament play, the TDA rules require that the player either use a verbal statement giving the amount of the raise or put the chips into the pot in a single motion, to avoid making a string-bet.
5. A wager is not binding until the chips are actually released into the pot, unless the player has made a verbal statement of action.
6. If there is a discrepancy between a player's verbal statement and the amount put into the pot, the bet will be corrected to the verbal statement.
7. If a call is short due to a counting error, the amount must be corrected, even if the bettor has shown down a superior hand.
8. Because the amount of a wager at big-bet poker has such a wide range, a player who has taken action based on a gross misunderstanding of the amount wagered needs some protection. A bettor should not show down a hand until the amount put into the pot for a call seems reasonably correct, or it is obvious that the caller understands the amount wagered. The decision-maker is allowed considerable discretion in ruling on this type of situation. A possible rule-of-thumb is to disallow any claim of not understanding the amount wagered if the caller has put eighty percent or more of that amount into the pot.
Example: On the end, a player puts a $500 chip into the pot and says softly, "Four hundred." The opponent puts a $100 chip into the pot and says, "Call." The bettor immediately shows the hand. The dealer says, "He bet four hundred." The caller says, "Oh, I thought he bet a hundred." In this case, the recommended ruling normally is that the bettor had an obligation to not show the hand when the amount put into the pot was obviously short, and the "call" can be retracted. Note that the character of each player can be a factor. (Unfortunately, situations can arise at big-bet poker that are not so clear-cut as this.)
9. A bet of a single chip or bill without comment is considered to be the full amount of the chip or bill allowed. However, a player acting on a previous bet with a larger denomination chip or bill is calling the previous bet unless this player makes a verbal declaration to raise the pot. (This includes acting on the forced bet of the big blind.)
10. If a player tries to bet or raise less than the legal minimum and has more chips, the wager must be increased to the proper size. (This does not apply to a player who has unintentionally put too much in to call.) The wager is brought up to the sufficient amount only, no greater size.
11. All wagers may be required to be in the same denomination of chip (or larger) used for the minimum bring-in, even if smaller chips are used in the blind structure. If this is done, the smaller chips do not play except in quantity, even when going all-in.
12. In non-tournament games, one optional live straddle is allowed. The player who posts the straddle has last action for the first round of betting and is allowed to raise. To straddle, a player must be on the immediate left of the big blind, and must post an amount twice the size of the big blind.
13. In all no-limit and pot-limit games, the house has the right to place a maximum time limit for taking action on your hand. The clock may be put on someone by the dealer as directed by a floorperson, if a player requests it. If the clock is put on you when you are facing a bet, you will have one additional minute to act on your hand. You will have a ten-second warning, after which your hand is dead if you have not acted.
14. The cardroom does not condone "insurance" or any other "proposition" wagers. The management will decline to make decisions in such matters, and the pot will be awarded to the best hand. Players are asked to refrain from instigating proposition wagers in any form. The players are allowed to agree to deal twice (or three times) when someone is all-in. "Dealing twice" means the pot is divided in two, with each portion being dealt for separately.
Tournament Rules
18. A player who declares all in and loses the pot, then discovers that one or more chips were hidden, is not entitled to benefit from this. That player is eliminated from the tournament if the opponent had sufficient chips to cover the hidden ones (A rebuy is okay if allowable by the rules of that event). If another deal has not yet started, the director may rule the chips belong to the opponent who won that pot, if that obviously would have happened with the chips out in plain view. If the next deal has started, the discovered chips are removed from the tournament.
19. If a player lacks sufficient chips for a blind or a forced bet, the player is entitled to get action on whatever amount of money remains. A player who posts a short blind and wins does not need to make up the blind.
23. At pot-limit and no-limit play, the player must either use a verbal statement giving the amount of the raise or put the chips into the pot in a single motion. Otherwise, it is a string bet.
Betting and Raising
1. Check-raise is permitted in all games, except in certain forms of lowball.
2. In no-limit and pot-limit games, unlimited raising is allowed.
6. Any wager must be at least the size of the previous bet or raise in that round, unless a player is going all-in.
8. A verbal statement denotes your action and is binding. If in turn you verbally declare a fold, check, bet, call, or raise, you are forced to take that action.
9. Rapping the table with your hand is a pass.
10. Deliberately acting out of turn will not be tolerated. A player who checks out of turn may not bet or raise on the next turn to act. An action or verbal declaration out of turn may be ruled binding if there is no bet, call, or raise by an intervening player acting after the infraction has been committed.
The Showdown
1. A player must show all cards in the hand face-up on the table to win any part of the pot.
2. Cards speak (cards read for themselves). The dealer assists in reading hands, but players are responsible for holding onto their cards until the winner is declared. Although verbal declarations as to the contents of a hand are not binding, deliberately miscalling a hand with the intent of causing another player to discard a winning hand is unethical and may result in forfeiture of the pot. (For more information on miscalling a hand see “Section 11 - Lowball,” Rule 15 and Rule 16.)
3. Any player, dealer, or floorperson who sees an incorrect amount of chips put into the pot, or an error about to be made in awarding a pot, has an ethical obligation to point out the error. Please help us keep mistakes of this nature to a minimum.
4. All losing hands will be killed by the dealer before a pot is awarded.
5. Any player who has been dealt in may request to see any hand that has been called, even if the opponent's hand or the winning hand has been mucked. However, this is a privilege that may be revoked if abused. If a player other than the pot winner asks to see a hand that has been folded, that hand is dead. If the winning player asks to see a losing player’s hand, both hands are live, and the best hand wins.
6. Show one, show all. Players are entitled to receive equal access to information about the contents of another player’s hand. After a deal, if cards are shown to another player, every player at the table has a right to see those cards. During a deal, cards that were shown to an active player who might have a further wagering decision on that betting round must immediately be shown to all the other players. If the player who saw the cards is not involved in the deal, or cannot use the information in wagering, the information should be withheld until the betting is over, so it does not affect the normal outcome of the deal. Cards shown to a person who has no more wagering decisions on that betting round, but might use the information on a later betting round, should be shown to the other players at the conclusion of that betting round. If only a portion of the hand has been shown, there is no requirement to show any of the unseen cards. The shown cards are treated as given in the preceding part of this rule.
7. If everyone checks (or is all-in) on the final betting round, the player who acted first is the first to show the hand. If there is wagering on the final betting round, the last player to take aggressive action by a bet or raise is the first to show the hand. In order to speed up the game, a player holding a probable winner is encouraged to show the hand without delay. If there is a side pot, players involved in the side pot should show their hands before anyone who is all-in for only the main pot.
TIES
1. The ranking of suits from highest to lowest is spades, hearts, diamonds, clubs. Suits never break a tie for winning a pot. Suits are used to break a tie between cards of the same rank (no redeal or redraw).
2. Dealing a card to each player is used to determine things like who moves to another table. If the cards are dealt, the order is clockwise starting with the first player on the dealer’s left (the button position is irrelevant). Drawing a card is used to determine things like who gets the button in a new game, or seating order coming from a broken game.
3. An odd chip will be broken down to the smallest unit used in the game.
4. No player may receive more than one odd chip.
5. If two or more hands tie, an odd chip will be awarded as follows:
(a) In a button game, the first hand clockwise from the button gets the odd chip.
(b) In a stud game, the odd chip will be given to the highest card by suit in all high games, and to the lowest card by suit in all low games. (When making this determination, all cards are used, not just the five cards that constitute the player's hand.)
(c) In high-low split games, the high hand receives the odd chip in a split between the high and the low hands. The odd chip between tied high hands is awarded as in a high game of that poker form, and the odd chip between tied low hands is awarded as in a low game of that poker form. If two players have identical hands, the pot will be split as evenly as possible.
(d) All side pots and the main pot will be split as separate pots, not mixed together.
Here are poker betting rules pertaining to a No-limit Texas Hold'em Poker Tournament. Please note these rules apply to "No-limit", "Hold'em", "Tournament" poker games - they may not apply to your typical dealer's choice home game. All rules are quoted verbatim from Robert's Rules of Poker v5.
No-limit Rules
1. The number of raises in any betting round is unlimited.
2. All bets must be at least equal to the minimum bring-in, unless the player is going all-in. (A straddle bet sets a new minimum bring-in, and is not treated as a raise.)
3. All raises must be equal to or greater than the size of the previous bet or raise on that betting round, except for an all-in wager. A player who has already acted and is not facing a full-size wager may not subsequently raise an all-in bet that is less than the minimum bet (which is the amount of the minimum bring-in), or less than the full size of the last bet or raise. (The half-the-size rule for reopening the betting is for limit poker only.)
Example: Player A bets $100 and Player B raises $100 more, making the total bet $200. If Player C goes all in for less than $300 total (not a full $100 raise), and Player A calls, then Player B has no option to raise again, because he wasn’t fully raised. (Player A could have raised, because Player B raised.)
4. At non-tournament play, a player who says "raise" is allowed to continue putting chips into the pot with more than one move; the wager is assumed complete when the player’s hands come to rest outside the pot area. (This rule is used because no-limit play may require a large number of chips be put into the pot.) In tournament play, the TDA rules require that the player either use a verbal statement giving the amount of the raise or put the chips into the pot in a single motion, to avoid making a string-bet.
5. A wager is not binding until the chips are actually released into the pot, unless the player has made a verbal statement of action.
6. If there is a discrepancy between a player's verbal statement and the amount put into the pot, the bet will be corrected to the verbal statement.
7. If a call is short due to a counting error, the amount must be corrected, even if the bettor has shown down a superior hand.
8. Because the amount of a wager at big-bet poker has such a wide range, a player who has taken action based on a gross misunderstanding of the amount wagered needs some protection. A bettor should not show down a hand until the amount put into the pot for a call seems reasonably correct, or it is obvious that the caller understands the amount wagered. The decision-maker is allowed considerable discretion in ruling on this type of situation. A possible rule-of-thumb is to disallow any claim of not understanding the amount wagered if the caller has put eighty percent or more of that amount into the pot.
Example: On the end, a player puts a $500 chip into the pot and says softly, "Four hundred." The opponent puts a $100 chip into the pot and says, "Call." The bettor immediately shows the hand. The dealer says, "He bet four hundred." The caller says, "Oh, I thought he bet a hundred." In this case, the recommended ruling normally is that the bettor had an obligation to not show the hand when the amount put into the pot was obviously short, and the "call" can be retracted. Note that the character of each player can be a factor. (Unfortunately, situations can arise at big-bet poker that are not so clear-cut as this.)
9. A bet of a single chip or bill without comment is considered to be the full amount of the chip or bill allowed. However, a player acting on a previous bet with a larger denomination chip or bill is calling the previous bet unless this player makes a verbal declaration to raise the pot. (This includes acting on the forced bet of the big blind.)
10. If a player tries to bet or raise less than the legal minimum and has more chips, the wager must be increased to the proper size. (This does not apply to a player who has unintentionally put too much in to call.) The wager is brought up to the sufficient amount only, no greater size.
11. All wagers may be required to be in the same denomination of chip (or larger) used for the minimum bring-in, even if smaller chips are used in the blind structure. If this is done, the smaller chips do not play except in quantity, even when going all-in.
12. In non-tournament games, one optional live straddle is allowed. The player who posts the straddle has last action for the first round of betting and is allowed to raise. To straddle, a player must be on the immediate left of the big blind, and must post an amount twice the size of the big blind.
13. In all no-limit and pot-limit games, the house has the right to place a maximum time limit for taking action on your hand. The clock may be put on someone by the dealer as directed by a floorperson, if a player requests it. If the clock is put on you when you are facing a bet, you will have one additional minute to act on your hand. You will have a ten-second warning, after which your hand is dead if you have not acted.
14. The cardroom does not condone "insurance" or any other "proposition" wagers. The management will decline to make decisions in such matters, and the pot will be awarded to the best hand. Players are asked to refrain from instigating proposition wagers in any form. The players are allowed to agree to deal twice (or three times) when someone is all-in. "Dealing twice" means the pot is divided in two, with each portion being dealt for separately.
Tournament Rules
18. A player who declares all in and loses the pot, then discovers that one or more chips were hidden, is not entitled to benefit from this. That player is eliminated from the tournament if the opponent had sufficient chips to cover the hidden ones (A rebuy is okay if allowable by the rules of that event). If another deal has not yet started, the director may rule the chips belong to the opponent who won that pot, if that obviously would have happened with the chips out in plain view. If the next deal has started, the discovered chips are removed from the tournament.
19. If a player lacks sufficient chips for a blind or a forced bet, the player is entitled to get action on whatever amount of money remains. A player who posts a short blind and wins does not need to make up the blind.
23. At pot-limit and no-limit play, the player must either use a verbal statement giving the amount of the raise or put the chips into the pot in a single motion. Otherwise, it is a string bet.
Betting and Raising
1. Check-raise is permitted in all games, except in certain forms of lowball.
2. In no-limit and pot-limit games, unlimited raising is allowed.
6. Any wager must be at least the size of the previous bet or raise in that round, unless a player is going all-in.
8. A verbal statement denotes your action and is binding. If in turn you verbally declare a fold, check, bet, call, or raise, you are forced to take that action.
9. Rapping the table with your hand is a pass.
10. Deliberately acting out of turn will not be tolerated. A player who checks out of turn may not bet or raise on the next turn to act. An action or verbal declaration out of turn may be ruled binding if there is no bet, call, or raise by an intervening player acting after the infraction has been committed.
The Showdown
1. A player must show all cards in the hand face-up on the table to win any part of the pot.
2. Cards speak (cards read for themselves). The dealer assists in reading hands, but players are responsible for holding onto their cards until the winner is declared. Although verbal declarations as to the contents of a hand are not binding, deliberately miscalling a hand with the intent of causing another player to discard a winning hand is unethical and may result in forfeiture of the pot. (For more information on miscalling a hand see “Section 11 - Lowball,” Rule 15 and Rule 16.)
3. Any player, dealer, or floorperson who sees an incorrect amount of chips put into the pot, or an error about to be made in awarding a pot, has an ethical obligation to point out the error. Please help us keep mistakes of this nature to a minimum.
4. All losing hands will be killed by the dealer before a pot is awarded.
5. Any player who has been dealt in may request to see any hand that has been called, even if the opponent's hand or the winning hand has been mucked. However, this is a privilege that may be revoked if abused. If a player other than the pot winner asks to see a hand that has been folded, that hand is dead. If the winning player asks to see a losing player’s hand, both hands are live, and the best hand wins.
6. Show one, show all. Players are entitled to receive equal access to information about the contents of another player’s hand. After a deal, if cards are shown to another player, every player at the table has a right to see those cards. During a deal, cards that were shown to an active player who might have a further wagering decision on that betting round must immediately be shown to all the other players. If the player who saw the cards is not involved in the deal, or cannot use the information in wagering, the information should be withheld until the betting is over, so it does not affect the normal outcome of the deal. Cards shown to a person who has no more wagering decisions on that betting round, but might use the information on a later betting round, should be shown to the other players at the conclusion of that betting round. If only a portion of the hand has been shown, there is no requirement to show any of the unseen cards. The shown cards are treated as given in the preceding part of this rule.
7. If everyone checks (or is all-in) on the final betting round, the player who acted first is the first to show the hand. If there is wagering on the final betting round, the last player to take aggressive action by a bet or raise is the first to show the hand. In order to speed up the game, a player holding a probable winner is encouraged to show the hand without delay. If there is a side pot, players involved in the side pot should show their hands before anyone who is all-in for only the main pot.
TIES
1. The ranking of suits from highest to lowest is spades, hearts, diamonds, clubs. Suits never break a tie for winning a pot. Suits are used to break a tie between cards of the same rank (no redeal or redraw).
2. Dealing a card to each player is used to determine things like who moves to another table. If the cards are dealt, the order is clockwise starting with the first player on the dealer’s left (the button position is irrelevant). Drawing a card is used to determine things like who gets the button in a new game, or seating order coming from a broken game.
3. An odd chip will be broken down to the smallest unit used in the game.
4. No player may receive more than one odd chip.
5. If two or more hands tie, an odd chip will be awarded as follows:
(a) In a button game, the first hand clockwise from the button gets the odd chip.
(b) In a stud game, the odd chip will be given to the highest card by suit in all high games, and to the lowest card by suit in all low games. (When making this determination, all cards are used, not just the five cards that constitute the player's hand.)
(c) In high-low split games, the high hand receives the odd chip in a split between the high and the low hands. The odd chip between tied high hands is awarded as in a high game of that poker form, and the odd chip between tied low hands is awarded as in a low game of that poker form. If two players have identical hands, the pot will be split as evenly as possible.
(d) All side pots and the main pot will be split as separate pots, not mixed together.
Last edited by Lizard on Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Lizard
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Re: Rule No. 10
BigPete33 wrote:It's not first ace.
It's high card, first one out if same.
To the best of my knowledge suits mean diddly in holdem, but I'm not any kind of expert.
Yep some ppl play high card some say first ace , high card is how i prefer , and your right suits are not used in holdem normaly play but can be to used determine the dealer.
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Garth Kay
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Re: Rule No. 10
It is always the first highest card to come out. So as soon as the first Ace hits that person is dealer. If no Ace hits then you go to the next highest card, if there are two Kings showing then it goes to the first King. Quick and easy.
As to the betting out of turn rule, that rule is still under discussion. But there are several reasons why it was first bought in; the main reasoning behind it is that a very small minority could only use this rule as the intimidation technique you described. Where the majority of times someone bets out of turn is generally an accident. We issued this rule so most new players would begin to understand that it is their responsibility to follow the path of the game and to understand where they are in the hand at all times.
That's the quick explanation.
We are revising all rules over the next fortnight, especially now that the TDA (tournament directors association) has completed their summit and decided on a general outline of rules for all tournaments.
As to the betting out of turn rule, that rule is still under discussion. But there are several reasons why it was first bought in; the main reasoning behind it is that a very small minority could only use this rule as the intimidation technique you described. Where the majority of times someone bets out of turn is generally an accident. We issued this rule so most new players would begin to understand that it is their responsibility to follow the path of the game and to understand where they are in the hand at all times.
That's the quick explanation.
We are revising all rules over the next fortnight, especially now that the TDA (tournament directors association) has completed their summit and decided on a general outline of rules for all tournaments.
Garth Kay
General Manager – Poker Operations
Full House Group
Mobile: 0438 234 816
Email: garth@fullhousegroup.com.au
General Manager – Poker Operations
Full House Group
Mobile: 0438 234 816
Email: garth@fullhousegroup.com.au
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Lizard
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Re: Rule No. 10
Garth Kay wrote:It is always the first highest card to come out. So as soon as the first Ace hits that person is dealer. If no Ace hits then you go to the next highest card, if there are two Kings showing then it goes to the first King. Quick and easy.
As to the betting out of turn rule, that rule is still under discussion. But there are several reasons why it was first bought in; the main reasoning behind it is that a very small minority could only use this rule as the intimidation technique you described. Where the majority of times someone bets out of turn is generally an accident. We issued this rule so most new players would begin to understand that it is their responsibility to follow the path of the game and to understand where they are in the hand at all times.
That's the quick explanation.
We are revising all rules over the next fortnight, especially now that the TDA (tournament directors association) has completed their summit and decided on a general outline of rules for all tournaments.
Good point on the betting out of turn, it would help new ppl learn quicker.
Pitty for the ppl who who have been playing a while and make a simple error due to filling there out cards and being a little bit tipsy
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BigPete33
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Re: Rule No. 10
We can live with those kind of tipsy ppl tho 
I've played out of turn myself on the odd occasion, and it's been my fault most of those times. Feel terrible for doing it!
I have a beef (read: MASSIVE ISSUE) with the ones who rock up smashed and ruin everybody elses night by constantly being ridiculous/playing out of turn/asking what to do for the 34567th time (in a row). I have serious doubts as to if they're actually there to try and play some poker.
There's not really a great deal that can be done about them on the night is there?
I'd invite them out to the carpark but that's probably considered poor form lol
I've played out of turn myself on the odd occasion, and it's been my fault most of those times. Feel terrible for doing it!I have a beef (read: MASSIVE ISSUE) with the ones who rock up smashed and ruin everybody elses night by constantly being ridiculous/playing out of turn/asking what to do for the 34567th time (in a row). I have serious doubts as to if they're actually there to try and play some poker.
There's not really a great deal that can be done about them on the night is there?
I'd invite them out to the carpark but that's probably considered poor form lol
Pardon me, but I think you'll find that's a shovel. See you next Tuesday!
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David
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Re: Rule No. 10
I'm all for "fun" poker with people who aren't 100% serious.
But people who rock up drunk shouldn't be allowed to play. It ruins everything.
But people who rock up drunk shouldn't be allowed to play. It ruins everything.
Hi, my name is Werner Brandes. My voice is my passport. Verify me.
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Garth Kay
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Re: Rule No. 10
After attending a few events in the last fortnight I have to agree with you both. Over the next several months we will be implementing some training for staff, one factor that will be raised is how to identify and an intoxicated person and how to refuse them entry or to remove them from a tournament.
Garth Kay
General Manager – Poker Operations
Full House Group
Mobile: 0438 234 816
Email: garth@fullhousegroup.com.au
General Manager – Poker Operations
Full House Group
Mobile: 0438 234 816
Email: garth@fullhousegroup.com.au
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andy_thomas
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Re: Rule No. 10
Garth Kay wrote:After attending a few events in the last fortnight I have to agree with you both. Over the next several months we will be implementing some training for staff, one factor that will be raised is how to identify and an intoxicated person and how to refuse them entry or to remove them from a tournament.
Brilliant!
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Lizard
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Re: Rule No. 10
One good point of the to drunk to play person,is that u can make a lot of money of them 
Thats about the only good thing though.
Thats about the only good thing though.
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