You're a Bunch of Factors

Had the pleasure of popping into Crown for the GF and sitting @ the $1/$2 cash tables for 2 hours.

I had a good run in the first hour, building my stack from $80 to about $150, mostly taking it from an old guy who seemed to always have some sort of hand but who would go all the way to the river, sometimes leading, sometimes calling all the way, burning through about 3 or 4 buy ins ($80) in the process.

After a while he started showing up with the goods and built his stack to around $200 or so when this hand happened.

BB (Me) $150ish
MP (old guy) $200ish
Button (knew what he was doing, but fairly standard player) $41

MP limps $2
Button raises to $6
SB folds
I raise to $12 (not even noticing the Button Raise, was excited about my KK (black) dealt to me
MP calls $12
Button shoves his remaining $35
I call
MP calls

Pot $124

FLOP

A 8 4

Me Check
MP Bet $24

Me ?????????

Can't remember the suits, rainbow flop tho.

why arent we reraising buttons shove???
flatting there OOP and letting the other player in cheap is just ewww. obv we needed to raise bigger pre too, but you knew that.
as played its probably a foldandwonderwhythehelliplayeditsobadlyinthefirstplace type of hand

maccatak11 wrote:why arent we reraising buttons shove???
flatting there OOP and letting the other player in cheap is just ewww. obv we needed to raise bigger pre too, but you knew that.
as played its probably a foldandwonderwhythehelliplayeditsobadlyinthefirstplace type of hand

agreed shove it pre and avoid having to make an awkward decision on the flop.

2 mistakes

min raising the first raise ( accidental or not i dont care)

flatting the 3 bet

dont mean to be harsh but this line is terrible

krunchie wrote:2 mistakes

min raising the first raise ( accidental or not i dont care)

flatting the 3 bet

dont mean to be harsh but this line is terrible

Have to agree here

It's a cash game at Crown.....you are up against bottom pair.......

so maccatak says fold, thanks you.

So, taking into account my horrible line, what do I do now & why?

FWIW re-shoving here isn't a super automatic play and would likely have cost me value. If I shove, old dude folds (possibly, not for sure tho) and i am heads up either racing or dominating a smaller pair for $41.

Calling and involving the old guy and increasing the pot, PLUS the money that would be going into the pot post flop means I am winning alot more with quite easy decisions on most flops.

It is just the A high flop that puts a spanner in the works....

So bennymacca, JMACK007, madaali, krunchie - what do we do now?

P.s. Krunchie, how much would you suggest I open for with KK?

gmatical wrote:FWIW re-shoving here isn't a super automatic play

It should be.

You should be making it $19+ on the button, but not so much that you can't re-raise if he shoves, isolating pre whenever possible. Pot size doesn't matter.

It's a pretty standard +EV play.

You fold the flop as played. What's he betting with that you can beat?

so we are sticking with the crown example because what i would 3 bet live is very different to what i would 3 bet on line.

In this example once the villan opens to 6 i would be 3 betting to around $20-$25, this should isolate your player and if he does 4 bet it gives you the option to fold cheaply enough if you belive he has aces.
Remember to think ahead of your oponent- if i bet to $25 what are his options, he could 4 bet to $x, this would mean i have these options etc etc

in regards to your other question what do we do now- firstly dont get yourself into tricky spots like this by playing bad lines,

as played its a fold

Ps you cant open with your kings, that was already taken by the bloke who raised infront of you to $6, so your question should be how much to i raise to in this spot with KK.

gmatical wrote:So bennymacca, JMACK007, madaali, krunchie - what do we do now?

i would be annoyed that i didn't pay attention about the original open, and i would just stuff my stack in and hope the other guy still overcalls. if he doesn't then meh.

on the flop, you are basically never good.