You're a Bunch of Factors

PokerStars Game #49927957312: Tournament #312094918, $4.00+$0.40 USD Omaha Hi/Lo No Limit - Level VII (50/100) - 2010/09/20 20:41:07 ET
Table '312094918 29' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: Shane Viper (8300 in chips)
Seat 2: Barathea (10033 in chips)
Seat 3: brace21 (10124 in chips)
Seat 4: Zane's Mum (10479 in chips)
Seat 5: SERZH57 (5986 in chips)
Seat 6: g-mackitymac (4650 in chips)
Seat 7: Buddy48783 (12743 in chips)
Seat 8: diabrete (4533 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 9: dougdentontx (7630 in chips)
Shane Viper: posts the ante 10
Barathea: posts the ante 10
brace21: posts the ante 10
Zane's Mum: posts the ante 10
SERZH57: posts the ante 10
g-mackitymac: posts the ante 10
Buddy48783: posts the ante 10
diabrete: posts the ante 10
dougdentontx: posts the ante 10
Buddy48783: posts small blind 50
diabrete: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to g-mackitymac [4s 5h 5c 3c]
dougdentontx: raises 500 to 600
Shane Viper: folds
Barathea: calls 600
brace21: calls 600
Zane's Mum: folds
SERZH57: calls 600
g-mackitymac: ?

Not a super tough or important spot or anything - just wanted to get advice on what seems like a fundamental I should know so I can establish a 'standard' play for the future.

Take into account my stack and bear in mind it was not a very aggressive table - is the suited low connecting plus pair worth the extra $500 or is it an auto-fold?

If a fold, is there any amount I should be prepared to call? (with the expectation that it is unlikely we will be raised and, if so, we fold to any re-raise)

i would fold here

very hard to make the nut low in this spot.

suited A2 or A3 are a minimum in hi-lo normally (at least that is my understanding)

not that i have any idea about hilo, but i'd fold. pretty hard to draw to the nuts at either end. I look for hands with a combination of high and low cards. Obviously we cant always get A2KQds, but similar hands are good starting points.

Easy fold. all your hoping for is a 5 to hit, or a lot of low cards.

Even then, you are going to be losing half the pot to the nut low. whilst you might take it down with a baby straight.
if the 5 rolls over to give you a set, your still ten outs for half the pot. Risking way too much for little return.
In terms of flush values your still way behind on it. Your drawing to the 10th nut flush in clubs.

Also as its no limit PLO8 you can definitely find better spots to get your money in. If you call and then spike the 5 shove it all in, your risking your entire stack for only 1200 to add for the high or the low if your lucky.

If they had limped around the table, wishful thinking i know, you can the call to see the flop and evaluate going further.

Brett.

maccatak11 wrote:not that i have any idea about hilo, but i'd fold. pretty hard to draw to the nuts at either end. I look for hands with a combination of high and low cards. Obviously we cant always get A2KQds, but similar hands are good starting points.

AA23ds is the best HiLo hand. Two nut flush draws and enough low cards that don't get countered when the flop comes. E.g A 2 4 board, two high cards follow, someone with 78 takes it down. Its a fun game.

I folded - but I was more wondering if there were any circumstances when I should be calling.

Say if I was last to decide on the raise and I had $20,000, what if they were double suited- or is it always an auto fold.

Does anyone know of (meaning actually use) a good, simple 'omaha stove' type of program?

gmatical wrote:I folded - but I was more wondering if there were any circumstances when I should be calling.

Say if I was last to decide on the raise and I had $20,000, what if they were double suited- or is it always an auto fold.

Does anyone know of (meaning actually use) a good, simple 'omaha stove' type of program?

to me, this is like having A9 or something in holdem - it will rarely, if ever, make the nuts, and there are so many second best hands that you can make where you just get crushed.

i can easily see you making a flush and a 7543A low and losing both pots to someone playing a suited A2.

especially with someone raising, this is a pretty likely holding for one of the other people

gmatical wrote:I folded - but I was more wondering if there were any circumstances when I should be calling.

Say if I was last to decide on the raise and I had $20,000, what if they were double suited- or is it always an auto fold.

Does anyone know of (meaning actually use) a good, simple 'omaha stove' type of program?

When everyone else has called. Less risk, and going to the flop to see what happens, could get lucky, or flop could come down making the decision easy to get away from it. E.g. No Low possible on the flop. Your hand is buried.

Pairs in Omaha get devalued pretty quickly. Think of all the issues you can run into when you hit your set and the board pairs higher than your set. Over vs Underfull houses. Set over Set, Trips with kicker issues, Straights, Flushes on river. Should always try and risk the minimum possible with the pair in the hand. Your never going to be favourite through the hand without any nut redraws.

Remember 9 outs in holdem is good, 15 outs in omaha is only ok.

What a wacky game this is! Oh well..... min cash etc....

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to g-mackitymac [9h 5s 2s Ah]

*** FLOP *** [9c Tc 5c] hmmmmmmm......
*** TURN *** [9c Tc 5c] [9s] woooohoooooo......
*** RIVER *** [9c Tc 5c 9s] [Jc] ugh.........
*** SHOW DOWN ***
g-mackitymac: shows [9h 5s 2s Ah] (HI: a full house, Nines full of Fives)
PDV1979: shows [6h Qd Kc Qc] (HI: a straight flush, Nine to King)
PDV1979 collected 29922 from pot
No low hand qualified
g-mackitymac finished the tournament in 58th place and received $9.94.

gmatical wrote:Does anyone know of (meaning actually use) a good, simple 'omaha stove' type of program?

This is a fantastic equity tool. (Better than PS imho - so many more options).
Supports Hold'em, Omaha, Omaha H/L, 7Stud and 7Stud H/L

Some very cool features like aliasing ranges for quick use, and plenty more output options the PS... nice graphs etc... Even auto hook into HEM/PT databases and review marked hands etc...
Free version limited to 2 players only (and a few other limits aswell)

Mind you, getting familiar with Omaha hand range notation can take a while... (but u have that issue with any Omaha equity calculator)