here's one for you

[Go Fish]

interesting discussion im having with someone at the moment, pretty heated from the other person might i add

deep stages of a tourny blinds at 2500/5000 500ante

BB 159,845
UTG+2 242,036
CO 207,468

BB with Ac10c
UTG +2 Jh9h
CO Ah8d

preflop
UTG+2 flats
CO raises to 12500
SB folds
BB smooths
UTG+2 smooths

Flop
JdQc8c

BB checks
UTG+2 checks
CO shoves
BB calls his whole stack
UTG+2 calls

Turn
5h
River
Qd

----------------------

can we find a fold on the flop?

[Caleb]

Only reason I'm quoting this is to put pretty pictures in.

interesting discussion im having with someone at the moment, pretty heated from the other person might i add

deep stages of a tourny blinds at 2500/5000 500ante

BB 159,845
UTG+2 242,036
CO 207,468

BB with [Ac10c]
UTG +2 [Jh9h]
CO [Ah8d]

preflop
UTG+2 flats
CO raises to 12500
SB folds
BB smooths
UTG+2 smooths

Flop
[JdQc8c]

BB checks
UTG+2 checks
CO shoves
BB calls his whole stack
UTG+2 calls

Turn
[5h]
River
[Qd]

----------------------

can we find a fold on the flop?

[Go Fish]

thanks caleb...

im interested to hear different opinions on this one

first thing i see wrong is the smooth pre

[Caleb]

I'm assuming you are BB with [ac10c] yes? You don't actually state.

You check called your stack off with draws and 29 BBs, M of 14.5.

Yes, of course you can fold.

That's if that is your hand.

This hand is pretty bad anyway you look at it.

BB should 3-bet here pre, especially with the weak open raise from CO and a limper behind. Then open-shoving that flop and getting your money in first is simple.

CO shoves for 4-times pot with BPTK. What does he think will call him? Naked flush draw only?

UTG+2 calls with MP+SD after a shove and a call. That is the only decent play here due to stack size and odds on knocking out two players.

Which player is the one getting heated about it?


Since you say can we find a fold, you are either BB or UTG+2.

BB) Yes
UTG+2) No, as the hand played out.

[Caleb]

Just noticed something.

I read UTG+2 as 2,000,000 something, not 200,000.

That changes it.

BB) Yes
UTG+2) Hell yes, unless BB folds. Then reads come in. But if BB calls then cards straight in the muck.

[trishan]

UTG+2 definitely should fold. As for BB, I don't mind flatting becuase UTG can sometimes limp AA/KK and other strong hands.

[Garth Kay]

WHat stages of the tourney.

xx/xxxx wouldbe nice?

Start stack of tournament?

When does the money start.

[Go Fish]

the "player" is in BB

down to around 130/4500 runners left in, not sure when cash started as it wasnt me playing the hand, in the 24th blind level

the question was raised regarding the play post flop, and i was told in no uncertain terms that i have no idea what im talking about and should be ashamed of my game if im not calling off my whole stack with draws...

i was also told that the following was the most useless post they have ever seen when i was pointing out that your only going in about 15% in front here
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 39.996% 38.03% 01.96% 1009056712 52105944.74 { AcTc }
Hand 1: 25.336% 22.51% 02.83% 597248201 74960711.91 { Jh9h }
Hand 2: 11.170% 10.20% 00.97% 270561598 25795732.74 { Ah8d }
Hand 3: 01.778% 01.67% 00.10% 44398817 2774934.90 { random }
Hand 4: 04.021% 02.35% 01.67% 62323761 44372228.24 { random }
Hand 5: 08.840% 07.32% 01.52% 194186074 40345336.74 { random }
Hand 6: 08.860% 07.34% 01.52% 194611854 40452938.74 { random }

"Also I'd love to hear the range of hands you think he has that mean we should fold.

Also, if you knew 100% that the person shoving on the flop had the nuts, would you call?"

thats a quote from someone else in the argument

all in all i find it funny

[Caleb]

the question was raised regarding the play post flop, and i was told in no uncertain terms that i have no idea what im talking about and should be ashamed of my game if im not calling off my whole stack with draws...

If that is truly what they are saying then why are you wasting your time talking to someone who clearly has no idea what they are talking about.

Calling with draws is fine, but not in this situation.

i was also told that the following was the most useless post they have ever seen when i was pointing out that your only going in about 15% in front here
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 39.996% 38.03% 01.96% 1009056712 52105944.74 { AcTc }
Hand 1: 25.336% 22.51% 02.83% 597248201 74960711.91 { Jh9h }
Hand 2: 11.170% 10.20% 00.97% 270561598 25795732.74 { Ah8d }
Hand 3: 01.778% 01.67% 00.10% 44398817 2774934.90 { random }
Hand 4: 04.021% 02.35% 01.67% 62323761 44372228.24 { random }
Hand 5: 08.840% 07.32% 01.52% 194186074 40345336.74 { random }
Hand 6: 08.860% 07.34% 01.52% 194611854 40452938.74 { random }

Considering they are talking about post-flop play, regardless of whether you agree with them or not, posting the stats of the hand for PRE-FLOP is actually pretty useless.

[Caleb]

UTG+2 definitely should fold. As for BB, I don't mind flatting becuase UTG can sometimes limp AA/KK and other strong hands.

So you'd prefer to play A10cc OOP with no further info?

3bet 99% of the time.