You're a Bunch of Factors

These two are from play last night at the jackpot tables (OMG it's over $135,000)

Questions: the 2nd hand limp/calling pre from utg (with 33).... and the bet sizing for both hands, any thoughts?

I'm utg in both hands and can find it difficult playing these mid/low pairs pre flop from ep...

Also.... is anyone else (other than Trishan) loving the overbetting on later streets? imo it looks bluff and seems to be getting paid off a lot more lately. (ie: the 1st hand)

Not sure if my line/play/reads in these games is getting better or villains are getting worse (or both).

Appreciate all comments/criticism.

#Game No : 234796203
***** Cassava Hand History for Game 234796203 *****
$0.50/$1 Blinds No Limit Holdem - *** 19 07 2010
Table Kenosha (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 5: SATANICUS ( $73 )
Seat 6: lion755 ( $72.55 )
Seat 7: _dropknee_ ( $106.65 )
Seat 8: BraamB ( $68.67 )
Seat 9: best__beat ( $109.08 )
BraamB posts small blind [$0.50]
best__beat posts big blind [$1]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to SATANICUS [ Td ] , [ Ts ]
SATANICUS raises [$4]
lion755 calls [$4]
_dropknee_ folds
BraamB calls [$3.50]
best__beat folds
** Dealing flop ** [ 5c ] , [ Th ] , [ 9s ]
BraamB checks
SATANICUS bets [$7]
lion755 folds
BraamB calls [$7]
** Dealing turn ** [ Kh ]
BraamB checks
SATANICUS bets [$61.50]
BraamB calls [$57.17]
** Dealing river ** [ 7c ]
** Summary **
SATANICUS shows [ Td ] , [ Ts ]




#Game No : 234798657
***** Cassava Hand History for Game 234798657 *****
$0.50/$1 Blinds No Limit Holdem - *** 19 07 2010
Table Kenosha (Real Money)
Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 1: briggsyb ( $88 )
Seat 3: kell175 ( $126.19 )
Seat 5: SATANICUS ( $97.71 )
Seat 6: lion755 ( $100.22 )
Seat 7: Keijjo ( $115.18 )
Seat 8: Jetoni64 ( $91.85 )
Seat 9: normace ( $72.90 )
Seat 10: lola3758 ( $175.85 )
briggsyb posts small blind [$0.50]
kell175 posts big blind [$1]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to SATANICUS [ 3s ] , [ 3c ]
SATANICUS calls [$1]
lion755 calls [$1]
Keijjo folds
Jetoni64 folds
normace calls [$1]
lola3758 calls [$1]
briggsyb calls [$0.50]
kell175 raises [$1]
SATANICUS calls [$1]
lion755 calls [$1]
normace calls [$1]
lola3758 calls [$1]
briggsyb calls [$1]
** Dealing flop ** [ 3d ] , [ 6d ] , [ Qs ]
briggsyb checks
kell175 bets [$1]
SATANICUS raises [$5]
lion755 folds
normace calls [$5]
lola3758 folds
briggsyb folds
kell175 calls [$4]
** Dealing turn ** [ Jh ]
kell175 checks
SATANICUS bets [$27]
normace calls [$27]
kell175 calls [$27]
** Dealing river ** [ 8c ]
kell175 checks
SATANICUS bets [$63.21]
normace calls [$38.40]
kell175 folds
** Summary **
SATANICUS shows [ 3s ] , [ 3c ]

first hand, i like

preflop is fine - 4x is probably as high as you would want to go, but UTG its completely fine. in later position though, 3.5 or 3x or even 2.5x is probably better.

i like your turn overshove. if you bet 2/3 pot again, it leaves you with an awkward amount on the river. well played


in the second hand, i think postflop is ok, but i really hate limping pre UTG.

you are really playing for set value, and against good opponents, a limp utg then a significant amount of aggression is pretty much always a set.

by the looks of it though, you have a really fishy table, so it might be justified, but i think playing 8 handed, its a fold.

if you are playing 6max though, i think its ok to raise, because you will be playing in position against the blinds a large amount of the time.


in the second hand, on the turn, you have led out for full pot. that is also pretty strong - maybe something like 18-20 is better. it will still allow you to shove on the river easily.

1st hand is standard, Well played sir and move on lol

2nd hand i am less impressed about
1st thing NEVER EVER EVER x2 Limp UTG with 3's your just lucky you has a table of fish because i was there would of raised you in position with a VERY wide range. but honestly the main reason is that you dont define ppls range which makes it exceeding difficult to play post. i would cut small pairs out of your range entirly

Post flop:
The flop action is fine, as for the turn and river. you played it correct in not giving people odds to chase and narrowing the field but i would be tempted to flat on the turn to a reraise but not to a jam if that make sense. without defining ranges here its possible for someone to have 6's (actually quite posible) and there line makes sense. actually thinking about this hand more i would bet a little over half pot, say 18 or 19 to keep the pot reasonably small then most prob a another 1/2bet of the river hoping to induce jams

MitchyMitch wrote:1st hand is standard, Well played sir and move on lol

2nd hand i am less impressed about
1st thing NEVER EVER EVER x2 Limp UTG with 3's your just lucky you has a table of fish because i was there would of raised you in position with a VERY wide range. but honestly the main reason is that you dont define ppls range which makes it exceeding difficult to play post. i would cut small pairs out of your range entirly

Post flop:
The flop action is fine, as for the turn and river. you played it correct in not giving people odds to chase and narrowing the field but i would be tempted to flat on the turn to a reraise but not to a jam if that make sense. without defining ranges here its possible for someone to have 6's (actually quite posible) and there line makes sense. actually thinking about this hand more i would bet a little over half pot, say 18 or 19 to keep the pot reasonably small then most prob a another 1/2bet of the river hoping to induce jams

re: bold above - Isn't that part of adjusting your game? Chris was probably aware that the table was fishy, so limped in where his normal game *may* have been different.

Bacon wrote:

MitchyMitch wrote:1st hand is standard, Well played sir and move on lol

2nd hand i am less impressed about
1st thing NEVER EVER EVER x2 Limp UTG with 3's your just lucky you has a table of fish because i was there would of raised you in position with a VERY wide range. but honestly the main reason is that you dont define ppls range which makes it exceeding difficult to play post. i would cut small pairs out of your range entirly

Post flop:
The flop action is fine, as for the turn and river. you played it correct in not giving people odds to chase and narrowing the field but i would be tempted to flat on the turn to a reraise but not to a jam if that make sense. without defining ranges here its possible for someone to have 6's (actually quite posible) and there line makes sense. actually thinking about this hand more i would bet a little over half pot, say 18 or 19 to keep the pot reasonably small then most prob a another 1/2bet of the river hoping to induce jams

re: bold above - Isn't that part of adjusting your game? Chris was probably aware that the table was fishy, so limped in where his normal game *may* have been different.

its still not correct to limp 3's UTG even if you knew the whole table would limp, you are not deep enough to get away from them if you hit a set. your pretty much losing your stack if someone has an overset which the chance is amplifed with 8 limpers

I really don't advocate ever limping UTG.

People say it's ok to limp big pockets on a hyper aggro table, but I am sorry, if it is a hypo agro table then I am sure getting three bet and I am holding AA.

Raising UTG also conceals your hand strength when you do hit a monster hand, most level 1/2 opponents think raise UTG = AQ+ and sometimes JJ+ and will call you down with top pair type of hands on non broadway boards.

Yeah I definitely hate the limp or even limp opens in 6 max cash games.