You're a Bunch of Factors

This is a hand from a few months back I always meant to post, but never did. It's a slight brag for me, but could be good to see what you guys thinks of my line.

1st hand of a 10c/25c live cashie with a few mates. Only 4 handed to begin with. I'm button.

SB (Tim Higgins) Some of you will know Tim. He's a solid, if not slightly predictable player. He's probably a big more LAGgy in ring games due to the whole rebuy aspect, even though he's usually too poor to rebuy anyway.

BB (Steve) My other best mate. Massive amount of gamble, very good reads most of the time, especially against people he knows well like us. Has a bad habit of c/c down extremely light and raising far too much pre / on the flop to protect "the best hand". As a result, he often creates massive implied odds against himself for marginal hands as he doesn't slow down until he's on the turn or later.

UTG (Sean) A good guy who is improving his game everytime he plays. He's been playing 2 games of 888 a week since basically day 1, and has recently branched out into ring games, online and the casino. He tends to overvalue weakish top pairs (eg J10 on a J 9 3 board), and I always have a solid read on him. I'm the only one, but even when he changes his game I seem to know what he has. He also makes extremely marginal value bet bluffs, he just hasn't quite learnt when to give up on some hands and get there cheaply. He'll probably read this (forum lurker), so I might have a different beast on my hands next game.

So first hand. Blinds 10c/25c
UTG ($25) calls
I ($25) call with [10c 8c]
SB ($25) Calls
BB ($25) makes it $2.25.
UTG calls
I call
SB folds

Flop

[jd 10s 7c]

BB bets $3.75
UTG calls.

My turn, I call. I put Steve on QQ+, possibly AK. Sean had a decent piece, could possibly be infront.

Turn
[10d]

BB checks
UTG bets $4
I flat.
BB calls.

River
[10h]
BB checks.
UTG bets $4.
I..... ?????

I have $15 behind. All have the same stack size. What line would you take here?

I would min raise it to $8 hoping Steve has his predicted QQ+ and re pops his remaining $15.

i think the question here is caleb who is going to pay what??
your mate steve you say is a good reader especially with you so if you flat call hoping to get him to throw 4 in prob wont happen...
if you bet all in for 15 there is 35 in the pot your getting just under 3 to 1 on your money and if there is a correct read of QQ then you will get the call as he would most likely put you on a straight or jacks full.
i dont think there is any need to min bet this as you will get looked up with an all in bet here if your reads are correct. plus we not playing with dumb dumbs here so i think i min raise is even more to fishy...

I like the min raise too.

Raise all in.
Hope to get called by a boat.

Raise him all in bar 1c ..... hoping he has a boat also

easy shove here.

a J is never folding, and at least one of them have it.

Ok, curveball time.

Let's say a shove is guaranteed to get folds all round.

What's the best play then?

Why would a shove induce folds? I thought you said these players are solid.

Therefore any shove prices in a call with all FH's and possible TPTK situations.

If a shove will induce a fold then possibly a min raise might be ideal but if a raise to $10 puts villain AI anyways.

So are you saying a min raise to $8 will get a call but a shove for $15 won't? Into that pot worth over $40?

The line here is confusing.

Garth Kay wrote:Why would a shove induce folds? I thought you said these players are solid.

Therefore any shove prices in a call with all FH's and possible TPTK situations.

They are solid players.

That doesn't mean that they play by pot odds, especially in this circumstance where we know each other so well. If they think they are beat they will fold, regardless of odds.

What hands would I be shoving with in this range?

Not a jack, not a straight. Over pair maybe, depending on my reads. They know the way I play and a shove on the river would just scream extreme strength. There are very few hands I would shove with on the river here. If I wanted to increase my perceived range I needed to raise the turn.

Garth Kay wrote:If a shove will induce a fold then possibly a min raise might be ideal but if a raise to $10 puts villain AI anyways.

So are you saying a min raise to $8 will get a call but a shove for $15 won't? Into that pot worth over $40?

The line here is confusing.

To answer this I need to give away the line I used.

I too felt a min raise to $8 would have the same effect as a shove. I didn't really see a way of inducing either of them to put their stacks in the middle. My reads are Sean has a Jack. Steve has QQ+. The way they played the hands in my mind polarised their ranges.

I ended up flatting, only to get Steve to put his $4 in as well. I felt that any kind of raise would end the hand and that if I only called, I would convince him that he would in fact have the best hand. There has even a small possibility of a raise from him if he truly believe he was ahead on the river.

He ended up calling and showing [ad ah]. Sean had [qhjh].

Against opponent I don't know the raise is obvious. But even right now I believe I played the hand to get the most amount of money on the river. If I raised the turn I MAY have gotten the stacks on the river.