You're a Bunch of Factors

Excuse my crude format

Hand #1

Blinds $2.5k/$5k/500 ante

18 left from 207 players

Folded around to me.............

SB (Me) $65K Holding KK
BB $22K ??

BB has 20% of his stack in with the blind, is the shortest stack of the 18 left.

Should I shove hoping to get a sigh/call (with any 2) because of his stack size, or call hoping he catches some piece of the flop and stacks off.

What's YOUR standard play here and why?



Hand #2

Blinds $2.5k/$5k/500 ante

14 left from 207 players

UTG (??) Stack $16K Shoves ALL IN

Folded around to me.........

No SB

BB (Me) Stack $??K 7 h 3 d

I hate when I 'have to call' but understand there sometimes are situations where I must. How big does my stack need to be to call with such junk?

hand 1

i like shoving with any 2 here most of the time. and as such, i would shove KK as well. i basically never limp the sb when its blind vs blind, i either raise or fold.

so i would just go ahead and put him all in and hope he calls.

hand 2.

got a few thoughts, want to run a few stoves though, so i will get back to you on that later tonight

sorry gmatical, what is the second hand?

K7?

the second hand is 7 3. his stack is unknown and the discussion is on how big it would need to be.

1st hand is an easy shove, but second hand is a good discussion i think. i might have a good think about it and post something when i get home from footy.

Hand 1: shove.
Hand 2: fold.

I'll go into detail later, not home ATM.


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maccatak11 wrote:the second hand is 7 3. his stack is unknown and the discussion is on how big it would need to be.

Correct - off suit too!!

sorry, but in the second hand, whose stack size is unknown? ours or UTG?

i see a 16k there but im not 100% on who it refers to

UTG's stack is 16k compared to the 5k big blind, but big blinds stack is unknown.

I think with there being no SB I'd probably fold unless I had a very comfortable chip stack.

muzzington wrote:UTG's stack is 16k compared to the 5k big blind, but big blinds stack is unknown.

I think with there being no SB I'd probably fold unless I had a very comfortable chip stack.

What is your figure that you consider it okay to call with?

I will reveal what I did and why after hearing y'all opinion on what you would be.

Mathmatics may produce a 'correct' figure - but this could vary from one person to another based on their style, how they feel etc. I wonder if we agree or share very different opinions.

so in hand 2 we need 11k to call and win a pot of approx 27k (we dont know how many people are on the table, so not sure how many antes).

So we are getting almost 2.5 to 1 to call here, but we have no information on the all in player - are they a nit? are they shoving with ATC?).

Lets assume they are a standard TAG and have waited to shove the top 15% of hands.

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 28.035% 27.68% 00.35% 92904409 1184014.00 { 7c3d }
Hand 1: 71.965% 71.61% 00.35% 240339147 1184014.00 { 77+, A7s+, K9s+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KTo+, QJo }

So even here its a pretty marginal call.

Obviously as the all in players range widens it becomes more of a call.


BUT, i think what gmatical is asking, is although we have what amounts to be a mathematical call, should we always make it? What does our stack size need to be before we make the call?

So its a cash game call, but this could turn into a good discussion about tournament equity.

I could post a few good tables and graphs from "Kill everyone" about equilibrium plays, but im buggered if i can understand half of them. I might read it again.

Do we call if its for half our stack? All of our stack? only a certain percentage of our stack?