You're a Bunch of Factors

Final table, 2nd hand. I really can't see doing anything else but folding pre, but I don't like that at all. I mean, the move feels right, but then I think about how I play AK... arrg.

Full Tilt Poker Game #11288154843: $1 Rebuy (84704550), Table 16 - 2500/5000 Ante 600 - No Limit Hold'em - 7:39:30 ET - 2009/03/23
Seat 1: Mefons911 (520,219)
Seat 2: millner (125,146)
Seat 3: illaMenTal (92,070)
Seat 4: Tim Ill (78,003)
Seat 5: Jimmy5781 (113,936)
Seat 6: NoodleNut (59,372)
Seat 7: crzy_azn (157,198)
Seat 8: AcLosesKing10_3 (131,381)
Seat 9: mlesmes (150,675)
Mefons911 antes 600
millner antes 600
illaMenTal antes 600
Tim Ill antes 600
Jimmy5781 antes 600
NoodleNut antes 600
crzy_azn antes 600
AcLosesKing10_3 antes 600
mlesmes antes 600
mlesmes posts the small blind of 2,500
Mefons911 posts the big blind of 5,000
The button is in seat #8
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to AcLosesKing10_3 [As Kc]
millner folds
illaMenTal calls 5,000
Tim Ill has 15 seconds left to act
Tim Ill is sitting out
Tim Ill has timed out
Tim Ill folds
Tim Ill has returned
Jimmy5781 calls 5,000
NoodleNut folds
crzy_azn has 15 seconds left to act
crzy_azn raises to 32,900
AcLosesKing10_3 has 15 seconds left to act
AcLosesKing10_3 raises to 130,781, and is all in
mlesmes raises to 150,075, and is all in
Mefons911 folds
illaMenTal folds
Jimmy5781 folds
crzy_azn has 15 seconds left to act
crzy_azn folds
mlesmes shows [Ac Ah]
AcLosesKing10_3 shows [As Kc]
Uncalled bet of 19,294 returned to mlesmes
*** FLOP *** [Kh Jd Js]
*** TURN *** [Kh Jd Js] [7d]
*** RIVER *** [Kh Jd Js 7d] [Qc]
mlesmes shows two pair, Aces and Jacks
AcLosesKing10_3 shows two pair, Kings and Jacks
mlesmes wins the pot (314,862) with two pair, Aces and Jacks
AcLosesKing10_3 stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 314,862 | Rake 0
Board: [Kh Jd Js 7d Qc]
Seat 1: Mefons911 (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 2: millner folded before the Flop
Seat 3: illaMenTal folded before the Flop
Seat 4: Tim Ill folded before the Flop
Seat 5: Jimmy5781 folded before the Flop
Seat 6: NoodleNut folded before the Flop
Seat 7: crzy_azn folded before the Flop
Seat 8: AcLosesKing10_3 (button) showed [As Kc] and lost with two pair, Kings and Jacks
Seat 9: mlesmes (small blind) showed [Ac Ah] and won (314,862) with two pair, Aces and Jacks

Standard.

Flatting with Ak is your only other option, I don't like it.

standard.

agreed

i think you played it right

variance is a bitch

with AK, you gotta think you are ahead of most people - shoving to isolate the original raiser is the right move imho - pretty standard that you would run into aces

I disagree with the above comments.

Scott wrote:I disagree with the above comments.

I disagree with this comment.

What isn't standard play about it? You would flat there with AK on the final table?

The unfortunate thing is he cannot re raise without putting himself all in, there are two limpers in early position. Raising to isolate is the only play.

Flatting the all in allows three other callers, possibly more to come along and completely change your equity in the hand as well as limiting your potential to win the hand, especially with AK.

i agree, i think thats standard

could of got away from it earlier in a tournament but not on the FT

Ok, I'm asking this because I'm trying to learn to lay some hands down as I believe I play too many, too aggressively. I'm not trying to suggest it is the right move, but I'm interested in thoughts on the matter. I also *really* don't like flatting here - too many people interested already.

So my question is "Is there any reason to fold this hand to two limpers, and a raise, considering both the original raiser, and one of those still to act has you covered?"

Sure, you've got a big club in AK, but one or more of your outs are likely gone with a couple of limpers and a raise, and you could be up against pockets in one of those early limps.

if you shove, then more than likely you are only gonna get 1 caller - you have good fold equity, so a lot of times you would pick up the pot then and there as well.

against most calling hands except for AA and KK, you are flipping - against some of the calling hands like AQ, you are smashing

with your fold equity, i think it makes sense to shove 99% of the time in that spot

i dont think it matters what stage of the tourney it is, but rather your stack size relative to the blinds. ak in this spot has a CSI of 10.2 (his stack divided by the cost per round of the table in blinds and antes), which is not really short stacked, but starting to get there.

before aaron's raise, the pot is worth 55.8K if he takes it down right there, which is a pretty big chunk of the total chips in play, and would put him second in chips on the table, behind the massive stack.

i think anything other than a shove here is silly.

even early on in the tourney i would be doing the same thing if i had a CSI of 10.