You're a Bunch of Factors

edit: issue with pictures still

Note, this is not a bad beat, I think I played them in an, er, interesting way - but you never learn if you don't get out of your comfort zone, unfortunately, this was particularly uncomfortable

First hand, around 90 left from 375-ish

$8,500 Guarantee (64331060), Table 32 - 200/400 Ante 50 - No Limit Hold'em - 7:03:34 ET - 2008/10/13
Seat 1: rcon101 (8,149)
Seat 2: Shoddi (13,034)
Seat 3: bose9 (10,765)
Seat 4: Golfamax (15,535)
Seat 5: tableshark4280 (10,560)
Seat 7: GoldenSangheili (35,448)
Seat 8: jockframe (3,040)
Seat 9: leosmith2006 (37,143)
rcon101 antes 50
Shoddi antes 50
bose9 antes 50
Golfamax antes 50
tableshark4280 antes 50
GoldenSangheili antes 50
jockframe antes 50
leosmith2006 antes 50
tableshark4280 posts the small blind of 200
GoldenSangheili posts the big blind of 400
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to rcon101 Ac Jh
jockframe folds
leosmith2006 folds
rcon101 raises to 1,500
Shoddi folds
bose9 folds
Golfamax folds
tableshark4280 has 15 seconds left to act
tableshark4280 folds
GoldenSangheili calls 1,100
*** FLOP *** 8c 7c 6d
GoldenSangheili bets 33,898, and is all in
Golfamax has been disconnected
Golfamax has reconnected
rcon101 has 15 seconds left to act
dibaba sits down
dibaba adds 3,963
rcon101 has requested TIME
rcon101 calls 6,599, and is all in
GoldenSangheili shows Jd Js
rcon101 shows Ac Jh
Uncalled bet of 27,299 returned to GoldenSangheili
*** TURN *** Ts
*** RIVER *** Qc
GoldenSangheili shows a pair of Jacks
rcon101 shows Ace Queen high
GoldenSangheili wins the pot (16,798) with a pair of Jacks
rcon101 stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 16,798 | Rake 0
Board: 8c 7c 6d Ts Qc
Seat 1: rcon101 showed Ac Jh and lost with Ace Queen high
Seat 2: Shoddi folded before the Flop
Seat 3: bose9 folded before the Flop
Seat 4: Golfamax (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: tableshark4280 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 7: GoldenSangheili (big blind) showed Jd Js and won (16,798) with a pair of Jacks
Seat 8: jockframe folded before the Flop
Seat 9: leosmith2006 folded before the Flop


Now, my thinking was why jam the flop if he has hit it? I'm putting him on KTs or something similar, and just using his stack to bully - I would I could not put him on a hand that didn't connect that was better than mine - AK, AQ, TT/JJ/QQ/KK/AA, I was expecting a re-raise preflop. Grrr. Its not often (extremely rare) I'd call an all-in with AJ high, but this really smelt to me - am I being too cynical I guess?

Anyway, the other hand - the one that really cost me a cozy ride in to the last 50. I'm thinking I really should have been able to put him on the As here? What hands was he tagging along with, that were not going to include the As? a Qs? Nah.

Was sitting around 5th I think when around 150 left.

Seat 1: rcon101 (16,245)
Seat 2: Shoddi (10,370)
Seat 3: bose9 (12,540)
Seat 4: Golfamax (9,950)
Seat 6: rubbersoul (4,505)
Seat 7: OzWilko (1,790)
Seat 8: jockframe (6,261)
Seat 9: ksdtc (5,500)
rcon101 posts the small blind of 80
Shoddi posts the big blind of 160
The button is in seat #9
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to rcon101 [ks qd]
bose9 calls 160
Golfamax has 15 seconds left to act
Golfamax folds
rubbersoul folds
OzWilko folds
jockframe calls 160
ksdtc folds
rcon101 calls 80
Shoddi checks
*** FLOP *** [4s 3s 6s]
rcon101 bets 320
Shoddi folds
bose9 folds
jockframe calls 320
*** TURN *** [4s 3s 6s] [4d]
rcon101 bets 480
lattemacchiato1 sits down
lattemacchiato1 adds 5,215
jockframe calls 480
*** RIVER *** [4s 3s 6s 4d] [2s]
rcon101 has 15 seconds left to act
rcon101 bets 1,575
jockframe raises to 5,301, and is all in
rcon101 calls 3,726
*** SHOW DOWN ***
jockframe shows [as 3h] a flush, Ace high
rcon101 mucks
jockframe wins the pot (12,842) with a flush, Ace high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 12,842 | Rake 0
Board: [4s 3s 6s 4d 2s]
Seat 1: rcon101 (small blind) mucked [Ks Qd] - a flush, King high
Seat 2: Shoddi (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 3: bose9 folded on the Flop
Seat 4: Golfamax didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: rubbersoul didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: OzWilko didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: jockframe showed [3h as] and won (12,842) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 9: ksdtc (button) didn't bet (folded)


edit: I'm sorta steaming with myself, but sorta not. Should I be more mad with myself for calling an all-in with nothing? tell me

1st hand: Why call an all in with A high? You can wait for a better spot to double up - easily. You didn't consider that he could have had 55? 99? And even at a stretch... A8?

But hey, what am I talk - I called an all in with AQ today (A high at the time) on the turn. 6 limpers for 30, a min raise to 60. I have AQs and pump it up to 330. Flop comes 8 high. I check, he bets 450, I call. Turn 5.

Board: 8 7 9 5. I check, he goes all in, I call. He has AJ, I hold.

2nd hand: Very hard to get away from that. There was no raise preflop, so crap like As 3x is allowed to limp. That push could've been made from the 9-Qs (believe me, I've seen it).

AceLosesKing wrote:1st hand: Why call an all in with A high? You can wait for a better spot to double up - easily. You didn't consider that he could have had 55? 99? And even at a stretch... A8?

It was more the aggression factor he has displayed - I really would have expected a raise with a made hand, or AK/AQ/AJ. He was playing lots of hands, and playing aggressively.

And if he just hit the top of the flop, why jam? only getting called by hands that beat him?

Anyway good luck to him - I obviously got it wrong But I can so see me making the move he did with only KT when I'm the big stack at the table!!!

rcon wrote:

AceLosesKing wrote:1st hand: Why call an all in with A high? You can wait for a better spot to double up - easily. You didn't consider that he could have had 55? 99? And even at a stretch... A8?

It was more the aggression factor he has displayed - I really would have expected a raise with a made hand, or AK/AQ/AJ. He was playing lots of hands, and playing aggressively.

And if he just hit the top of the flop, why jam? only getting called by hands that beat him?

Anyway good luck to him - I obviously got it wrong But I can so see me making the move he did with only KT when I'm the big stack at the table!!!

I could see the same move being made with a 9, or a 5. It is very weird, though. You'd think a pot sized bet would've got you off it.

But hey, he got the call, guess it was the right play.

Think the big stack is playing the hand fine in the first hand.

He has JJ, a shortstack has raised approximately 15% of his stack. Putting him on AK,AQ,AJ, Or pocket pairs of some description. He was trapping on the flop. You checked showing that you hadn't hit. Hence he knew he had the best hand. All in, call by you he is ahead and takes the pot down. If you had pushed all in on the flop, he might have folded, but going with the chip difference he was probably going to call you down no matter what.

As for the second hand, I can't make heads or tails of it, repost and i might give a better answer, I can't work out who has what cards or what flushed beat who. Guessing 4 cards flush.

Brett Kay wrote:As for the second hand, I can't make heads or tails of it, repost and i might give a better answer, I can't work out who has what cards or what flushed beat who. Guessing 4 cards flush.

Board four flushed, Matthew's 2nd nut flush into the other guys nut flush. Both four card.

Second hand is always going to be an iffy one.

The bet call on the flop should give you an indication he is in this hand with some Flush cards there.

The bet call on the turn should give you pause a little. You have missed the board relying on one card that he is relying on to give you the second nut flush.

Would have checked the turn and let him bet at me to get an idea of what cards he has. Bet usually means T j Q A Spade 3 to 4 cards can be beat his holdings. Check behind still puts you in a tough spot.

The River, well always going to be a difficult one. This would be a hand that is just difficult to read with calling stations in the mix.

Best way of looking at the hand. Initial Start stacks of 16k vs 6k. If you double him up to 12k then you are going to be down to 10k. So all in all, not a huge loss to you. But is going to be annoying to get the money back of this guy later.

Possibly shut down after the call on flop. Any number of hands could be beating you. Flush, Naked ace, straights, straight flushes.

My opinion.

in the first hand, i would have put him on a mid pocket pair - probably not as high as JJ

if i was in his shoes, your raise narrows down your range to any 2 non paired cards over a J, and probably 77 or up.

so i would be thinking my JJ is good here. if you run into QQ KK AA 77 or 88, then meh.

i think it was a good play by him. because of your stack size, you probably hand to call with something like AK or AJ if he put the pressure on you, and thats exactly what you did.

[as]

Brett Kay wrote:Think the big stack is playing the hand fine in the first hand.

I'll say he played it well - absolves me of responsibility for playing it poorly

Brett Kay wrote:He has JJ, a shortstack has raised approximately 15% of his stack. Putting him on AK,AQ,AJ, Or pocket pairs of some description. He was trapping on the flop. You checked showing that you hadn't hit. Hence he knew he had the best hand. All in, call by you he is ahead and takes the pot down. If you had pushed all in on the flop, he might have folded, but going with the chip difference he was probably going to call you down no matter what.

He was in a blind, I was mid pos, so post flop, he has jammed straight before I acted - no way I'd check that flop with AJ! It was the jam that threw me - why jam, unless you didn't want a call with cards like KQ/KJ/KT/QJ etc?


I'm resigned to the fact it was a horrible call by me, just interested to see if I'm alone in thinking he might have been on a steal (it will make me feel a little better!)