You're a Bunch of Factors

Prompted by Garth's etiquette article linked in the recent 888PL newsletter e-mail...

In it, Garth stated that one of his pet peeves was when other people get involved in handling pot chips, giving change, calculating multi-way pots, etc. when they're not the dealer. That only the dealer should handle the pot chips.

I put my hand up as somebody who gets in there to help out the dealer without being asked. My question is: Is there more gray to this point of etiquette than Garth sees?

At 888PL, there are many players who clearly struggle to count a stack of 10 chips, let alone work out multi-way pots, and in my experience, the majority of players when dealing will not bother to gather the bets into the pot before the next round of betting begins. All too often when I sit back on one of these tables with such a dealer there can be confusion at about the turn because everyone has got a bunch of chips in front of them belonging to the pot, with some having change taken out, etc.

It can also be very confusing to new players if the bet chips are not combined into the pot.

At finals events, I definitely hold back a lot more when I'm not the dealer, as the standard of play and etiquette is far higher than the normal weekly events.

Should I take Garth's disapproval to heart and sit on my hands when I'm not the dealer unless asked, or should I help out whenever I see the opportunity and the dealer shows no interest?

Griffyn wrote:Prompted by Garth's etiquette article linked in the recent 888PL newsletter e-mail...

In it, Garth stated that one of his pet peeves was when other people get involved in handling pot chips, giving change, calculating multi-way pots, etc. when they're not the dealer. That only the dealer should handle the pot chips.

I put my hand up as somebody who gets in there to help out the dealer without being asked. My question is: Is there more gray to this point of etiquette than Garth sees?

At 888PL, there are many players who clearly struggle to count a stack of 10 chips, let alone work out multi-way pots, and in my experience, the majority of players when dealing will not bother to gather the bets into the pot before the next round of betting begins. All too often when I sit back on one of these tables with such a dealer there can be confusion at about the turn because everyone has got a bunch of chips in front of them belonging to the pot, with some having change taken out, etc.

It can also be very confusing to new players if the bet chips are not combined into the pot.

At finals events, I definitely hold back a lot more when I'm not the dealer, as the standard of play and etiquette is far higher than the normal weekly events.

Should I take Garth's disapproval to heart and sit on my hands when I'm not the dealer unless asked, or should I help out whenever I see the opportunity and the dealer shows no interest?

good post griffyn

what you are doing is fine imo - if it is clear that the dealer can benefit for you helping out, then thats fine.

i dont have a problem with this at all. the thing i dont like is when, for example, the blinds are 25/50 and someone raises to 150 and automatically grabs their 50 change from the person alongside. this is where it can get confusing for the dealer.

secondly, pub poker should be a place to learn - so if someone is new, you should let them have a crack at doing it themselves, whilst keeping an eye on what they are doing and hopefully correct any mistakes.

I think also that it is important that there are not 6 different people all with hands in the pot. if one person is helping the dealer, make it clear who that person is and let everyone else sit back and enjoy the show.

the other reason i see experienced people getting involved is time

it helps speeds up the action and gets us more hands an hour

nothing worse than sitting there watching a newbie take 5 minutes on a 30 second job.

Great post Griffyn. I think Garth was more refering to the points benny the cunt made about taking change too early. I am the same as you, all too often when you have multiple side pots everyone at the table is calling out for the TC to come over rather than work it out themselves. If we are at the table and can work them out ourselves, then there really is no problem with it and it leaves the TC free to do other things......

krunchie wrote:the other reason i see experienced people getting involved is time

it helps speeds up the action and gets us more hands an hour

nothing worse than sitting there watching a newbie take 5 minutes on a 30 second job.

That sounds like me - at the weekly venue I play at the things I hate the most are people tanking for 10 mins and slow-rolling, mainly for the reasons stated above, I hate getting 3 hands per blind level...

thelaw88 wrote:I hate getting 3 hands per blind level

and i thought that was reserved for only my venue

krunchie wrote:

thelaw88 wrote:I hate getting 3 hands per blind level

and i thought that was reserved for only my venue

Many moons ago I went to a game on Yorke Peninsula when i visited the folks. I was UTG first hand but only got to deal once in all of the first session.VERY frustrating indeed!

Needless to say I had to start jumping in and helping with pots etc as my blood pressure was getting too high lol.

i myself am usually the one at the table who takes over the pot control to make the game run smoother

on the odd occasion i get nominated as table dealer, which once again makes the game run smoother

people getting there own change and doing it way too early is on of the things i see the most that really annoys me, particularly when there are newer players at the table

i know where Garth is coming from, and understand that it is not only etiquette but also to help cut out any chances of people doing what "******" has been banned for life for doing...

Go Fish wrote:on the odd occasion i get nominated as table dealer, which once again makes the game run smoother

Its fine to help people, but doing this will make it longer for everyone else to learn how to do it properly.