You're a Bunch of Factors

Writing a reply to this, will complete the draft tomorrow.

Hi Cazz,

I will answer your questions as best I can and it won't be a detailed report like Kleemann seems to be writing!

1.) It's funny that you mention that these three forms of poker because I was having this discussion with a couple of other very skilled players last week. Those three forms of poker you talk about offer very different environments and do require different skill levels as well as different strategies.

I suck as a cash player, there is just something about playing ring games that drives me insane and at anything lower than 200NL I am just too tricky for my own good. For some reason I have always been a decent tournament player and the strategies involved in playing Tourneys just came to me naturally and I augmented these skills with more knowledge from studying the game through others eyes.

I personally believe that poker is a game of skill (who doesn't?) It is also a game of edges, no matter how small, you must exploit these edges. So if you're more profecient and comfortable when playing tournaments then that is the field you should look to stay in.
Cash games are where the real skill in playing hands is determined and the risks vs. rewards are definitely there, but if you're not disciplined in bankroll mangement you should definitely stay away from ring games.

2.) If you are not a confident player and don't believe that you are at least not the best player sitting at the table then you shouldn't be there. The best poker players all have several things in common; self belief, determination to win and prove themselves as well an arrogance that may not be over the top but is definitely there.

If you don't believe that you should be sitting at this table with these players or that you feel that you can't hold your own against these players then you shouldn't be there. You're what we like to call scared money, you have no confidence and no faith in your play, and I, and many others, will eat you up.

You can never, ever play poker to the best of your ability if you are second guessing yourself every time or feel dominated or initmidated if you get involved in a hand.

3.) HA - I call this emotional and mental quicksand. At the moment I am very frustrated with my game, a play very solid tournament poker for 75% of the tournament, run deep, and then one play won't go right or I will lose a flip for a portion of my stack or get sucked out on and then the wheels fall off and everything goes downhill real quick. Start second guessing your decisions, making the wrong bets, reading incorrectly and generally going on tilt really screw your day. It is spiral and it only takes one mistake and then all of a sudden you are stuck in quicksand, getting sucked down further and the more you struggle the more you sink!

What I do, is take a few minutes off, sit out a few hands, lift up the fly weights and pump out a few rhythms. Whilst this might not work for you, it is always a good time to get up, go get a drink take a breath and realise one thing: "I've been in worst places than this, this is just a game, and no matter what happens, life goes on and life is good!" and if that doesn't work I am happy in the knowledge that "I am better than 90% of these punks, and the only way they are going to beat me is for them to get lucky!"

4.) How serious are you about your poker Cazz? If you want to be serious about it then I recommend depositing into an online poker client (888 of course) and commencing to play online tournaments (888 actually does have a good nightly schedule for beginning players, and I am being serious here kids). I would then play for a good solid three months and look to get at least 400 tournaments in during this time (that's an average of five tournaments per day).
You want to play a range of buy ins but after you have completed your four hundred tournaments you want the total average buy in to be around $7 - $12 (for a $1,000 deposit) or $3 - $6 (for a $500 deposit). You always want a bankroll of 100 x the ABI (average buy in). We can speak about this in more detail later if you wish.

You then need to keep a record of every single tournament you play during this time(live and online and yes 888PL tournament do count). And you want to keep a journal of these tournaments, it's quite simple; time played, buy in, number of players, your finishing position, detailed hand description of the hand that eliminates you and finally a notes section (this section is used to record important hands that stuck in your head, a mistake you made, a hand where you calculated pot odds correctly and it worked out, a hand you played brilliantly, a read you picked up, something funky you noticed your opponent do or a read you picked up on) you only want to take two to three notes for every tournament.

So after those three months you spend two to three hours analysing your play. The first important things you need to calculate is how often you cashed (finished in the top 10% - 15% of the field) compared to how many tournaments you played - you want this to be over 10% in total. So 10% of tournaments you played you cashed in.

Second thing you want to calculate is your ROI (return on investment) calculate the total amount of buyins and the total amount of $'s won and at a minimum you want this to be positive. A good ROI for this amount of tournaments would be anywhere from 5% - 25% depending on the skill level of the field. But any profit after this amount of tournaments is a good thing.

And finally you want to read all of your notes from those tournaments from the first to last, you want to be able to notice how your level of thinking about poker improved and how your understanding of poker, your opponents thought processes and generally play strategy improved. You will eventually move away from making notes on a good hand you played or a bad hand you played and start taking notes on exactly WHY it was well or badly played.

If you feel confident after this time and have made a decent profit then it's time to give it a shot and perhaps play a few tournaments that are not out of your bankroll's reach. I would recommend small buy in tourneys up to $100 at a casino to test your skill and get used to the serious live environment. Same rules apply as above but this time you are only looking to play 2 to 2 live tourneys per week. If the results are positive at the end of three months then I suggest building your bankroll and looking to Satellite into one of the ANZPT or Aussie Millions event. Also Cazz even though it is an 888PL event, the Grand Final is a well structured tournament that is a cheap alternative to paying a large amount of $$$'s for major casino events.

I hope I have answered most of your questions here, and to be truthful Cazz, every poker player asks themselves these questions at some time or the other and they do doubt themselves at some time.

What you have here is about stage 2.5 of what I do with the players I coach. I make them do this and if you are serious about poker it is a very serious step in improving your game.

Well, maybe it was detailed. That was written on the fly, I will edit it later.

hi caroline,
your questions are not silly at all.

garth has pretty much answered what i would have, but ill add a few things.

Nevah play JJ wrote:Q1. - Tournament vs Cash vs Online.
So ok..
I am asking for opinions in regards to the above.
Do you see it as being a valid thing to concentrate on one form of play over another?
Or rather is it ok to concentrate on being a Tournament player, or should you always play all 3 forms and master them all and any other forms?

what do you most feel comfortable playing? that should decide what game you play. from my personal experience though, i would regard myself as a better tournament player rather than a cash player. but in general, i can only commit at most 2 hours at a time to poker usually. i rarely get the time to sit down and play for 6 hours at a time, which is required for the big tourneys. hence, i usually play cash games.

so the answer is yes, you can definitely concentrate on a specific game that you like, and it should be the one that you feel most comfortable playing.

Nevah play JJ wrote:2. - Self belief.
Do you believe that you have to be a completely over the top over confident person to play poker properly?
or can you be someone that has shaky confidence and still play poker fully?

i agree with garth here. i really do think that you need to have a little bit of an ego to play properly. that doesn't mean "over the top confident", but it does mean that whenever you sit down at a table, you have to believe that you are the best player sitting down - or that in the future you will be the best. if you are intimidated at all by anyone else sitting at the table, they will make mince meat out of you.

Nevah play JJ wrote:3. - Self confidence declining during the game.
I played a tournament today at the Casino and before the first break, I believe I started out pretty strong. I was able to push, bluff, raise and generally felt awesome about the way I played hands.
The game went on break and suddenly my confidence dropped. I second guessed every single decision I made, I started to make very bad decisions, etc...
Do you guys find you have the same issues? If so, how do you overcome them?

think about why and how you were playing when you were feeling good. what changed? surely there was something that happened. maybe a new player came to the table that you were scared of, or you just took a beat in a huge pot - it had to be something.

then, as garth said, stand up, take a few deep breaths, even go and get a drink - just do something to refresh. from my personal experience, when it was the final table of the npl main event, i had just won the huge pot when i sucked out with a deuce on the turn (yay ), but i felt myself getting really nervous, because it was the first time that i thought, bloody hell, i could actually win this thing.

that nervousness was starting to get a hold of me, so i got up, went to the toilet, and splashed some water on my face, and took a few deep breaths. in the mean time, i actually folded my big blind because i wasn't at the table, but i think it was definitely worth it, because i regained my composure after that.

Nevah play JJ wrote:4. - Stepping outside 888pl
How did you know it was time to step outside 888pl and try and attempt buy-ins and those poker tournaments floating around like the ANZAPT and Aussie Millions?

as garth said, the first step is to put in some serious volume in the games that you would like to play - personally, even if its cash games when you really want to play tourneys, that is still better than no poker at all. (the strategies in cash games are different to tourneys, but the hand reading etc is similar).

so first thing would be to just start playing more. if its online, that definitely means keeping track of your results. a journal is a great idea, probably something i should use in addition to software programs like holdem manager and pokerstove.


secondly, and by the sounds of it you are, but if you would like to play in some casino tourneys, then i would say that it would be a good idea to start going to the casino semi-regularly. if you feel comfortable in the casino environment, then it will go a long way to your success if/when you do play a big tourney - if you are nervous, there is no way that you will ever do any good.

the 888pl grand final is indeed a good idea, but in addition to that, the casino run a $65 buyin tourney on a wednesday night, which might be a good start.

garth is recommending with that these tourneys you should always play within your bankroll. for online i think this is true, but for live tourneys, i think that you dont have to be as strict when you start off. if you treat the buyin as entertainment money for the week, and as long as you can afford to lose it every week, i dont see bankroll management as that much of an issue. just treat it as a fun night out, with the hope of a bonus prize if you cash. just being in the tounament environment on a regular basis (at a higher level than the standard pub game) would be great experience. you might lose a bit at the start, but as long as you can afford it, and you dont' get disheartened, the experience at the felt that you would gain would be priceless. obviously i am not recommending spending $500 a week, but i think $65 a week is in most people's disposable cash limits.



great questions caroline - i really like that you take time to ask questions and think about the answers. personally, i am always willing to give you advice, because i feel that you listen and digest it and hopefully learn . i feel that the time i take to answer actually means something to you, and im sure others feel the same, which is why we always give you proper detailed answers. when you have a different opinion to me, you always think about why it is different. and that way, i can learn something from you as as well. well done.

I found this post very interesting as I have been doubting my abilities for some time now. I have always found my confidence low for most live games that I play and had been wondering if this was impacting my results. I have seen my husband play and he is usually super confident and don't tell him I said this but super arrogant at times and I know when he is like this he usually does quite well. From tournaments in venue to the casino he always brings a "dont you know who I am" attitude to the table which tends to work.
Not sure I know how to build up my confidence but need to try. Online I don't suffer from the same problem as I know that my poker knowledge is solid. I liked the tip about keeping records as while I do this for my cash online games I don't tend to this for live play. I did also see a post from a pro recently that recommended keeping a record of your emotions going into each game so you can track how this affects your play also.
Garth you are always a great source of poker insight and thank you for all of the great advice that you give.

haha just after i make my post, i opened up pokernews to have a read, like i normally do, and found this article, which i think is pretty good

http://www.pokernews.com/strategy/what- ... r-7884.htm

Just read your response benny the cunt and like I said to Garth I would like to thank you for all of the advice that you give players as I know that speaking for myself I find this invaluable.

madali wrote:I found this post very interesting as I have been doubting my abilities for some time now. I have always found my confidence low for most live games that I play and had been wondering if this was impacting my results. I have seen my husband play and he is usually super confident and don't tell him I said this but super arrogant at times and I know when he is like this he usually does quite well. From tournaments in venue to the casino he always brings a "dont you know who I am" attitude to the table which tends to work.
Not sure I know how to build up my confidence but need to try. Online I don't suffer from the same problem as I know that my poker knowledge is solid. I liked the tip about keeping records as while I do this for my cash online games I don't tend to this for live play. I did also see a post from a pro recently that recommended keeping a record of your emotions going into each game so you can track how this affects your play also.
Garth you are always a great source of poker insight and thank you for all of the great advice that you give.

in additon to the confidence ego thing though, it is very easy to go too far and think you are god's gift to poker. not saying that your husband is like that, but everyone knows those type of people around the place.

at the felt, you have to be confident, but away from the felt you have to be brutally honest about how you are going as a player.

madali wrote:Just read your response benny the cunt and like I said to Garth I would like to thank you for all of the advice that you give players as I know that speaking for myself I find this invaluable.

thanks a lot gayle. i dont claim to be a great poker player (my 30k hand breakeven/losing stretch at 50NL will testify to this) but i think i have more experience than a lot of people here. and if i can off that, i am more than happy to.